Kuk Sool

Wrist grab defense

/ hsoi

If you’re familiar with Kuk Sool’s Sohn Ppae Ki wrist grab release technique set, what you see in this video may be familiar to you.

Ollie Batts has a 3rd degree black belt in Kuk Sool (WKSA), but left the organization long ago (around 1989). He’s been studying other things, such as Savate, CombatSombo, FMA, JKD, and such. Consequently, what’s nice to see in this video is how Kuk Sool principles and techniques are solid things, yet it takes going beyond the rote curriculum to really go anywhere and do anything. Those unfamiliar with the Sohn Ppae Ki set won’t be able to see what I mean in watching the above video, but those that do know, you’ll see how you really need to move beyond the techniques.

Granted the above is a controlled and limited environment due to the teaching context, so it’s not like it’s free-sparring. But it’s still demonstrating that the basic technique is only a start, not an end. It also demonstrates that, as an art, Kuk Sool — especially the “technique” curriculum — is a solid art. What’s lacking these days is much of how it’s taught.

To cross-train, or not

/ hsoi / 5 Comments

The big thing in martial arts these days (and many other places, but I’m talking martial arts) is to cross-train. I would say this has become prominent due to the rise of mixed-martial arts (MMA) which is all about cross-training.

The intent it this: you study one art, you may be limited in what you can do, thus you ought to train in another art to ensure you don’t have any weak areas or holes in your game. For instance, these days the classic MMA formula is: muay thai for striking, wrestling for takedowns (or maybe judo), and Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) for groundwork. The intent is that say, muay thai only covers striking (limited view I know, but go with me) but it’s really good at striking, so if you want to get your striking game you study that. But if that’s all you studied, what would happen if the fight ended up on the ground? Thus, you need to study BJJ to cover that aspect. The end result is you end up being a well-rounded fighter.

Then you get some arts, such as Kuk Sool, that claim to not need cross-training because they are a complete art. Speaking on Kuk Sool, I can say it is fairly complete but does lack in some areas. I know some Kuk Sool folk that have thrown down with BJJ guys and get p0wned; while concepts and principles are there, Kuk Sool’s curriculum just doesn’t emphasize the depth of what BJJ does on the ground. A Kuk Sool person may have enough ground skill to deal with a street fight or self-defense situation, but full-on ground fighting competition? Won’t happen.

But whatever the approach, be it a single art that claims comprehensiveness or you take multiple arts to gain the same broad spectrum of study, the end result and goal is the same of covering all the bases.

While this sounds great, is it always the best and right thing to do? I’d argue it depends upon your training goals.

Let’s say you have a pile of bricks with which to build your house. You can build in one of two directions: you can build up or out. You can stack all your bricks on top of each other. That would be like studying a single-focused art. You would get very good in that one aspect very quickly, but your house isn’t very wide and you would lack in those other areas. You could stack your bricks side by side. That would be like cross-training or studying a broad-focus/comprehensive art. You’d gain a lot of breadth of knowledge, but it’s not going to be very deep. Over time, you end up stacking your bricks in the other direction: if you stacked up, eventually you’ll stack out and build those stacks upwards as well; if you stacked out, you’ll add height to those stacks as time goes on. In the long run, the theory is that you’ll wind up at the same place, with a wide and tall stack of bricks. So the question then becomes: what do you want now? And are you willing to invest the time and effort to get to that same place way down the line? Again, it all depends upon your goals.

Furthermore, what is your learning style like? Do you need focus? Or can you deal with a lot of different concepts and techniques coming at you at once? Do you feel you can practice all of those well-enough, or might you be better just working on a few things at a time? Everyone varies on this. Know yourself and your learning style.

For me, Kuk Sool was a comprehensive approach. I like the art for that reason, because I do see the merits in being well-rounded. However, you have to mind that your training will allow you to build those wide stacks into tall stacks. Often the training at my dojang didn’t go that way: you’d have a 60 minute class with 15 minutes of warm-up, 15 minutes on forms, 15 minutes on breakfalls, then 15 minutes on techniques (or some breakdown like that). Sometimes you might have 45 minutes focused on something. But it would vary, especially depending upon the composition of the class in terms of students and their grade level. I often felt that I didn’t quite get the depth of study that I desired.

I left Kuk Sool and am now studying Kali, Silat, Jun Fan arts, Muay Thai, and western boxing. That still seems like a lot, but in many respects it’s all “stand-up” work. At my current school I could also study BJJ, but I opted against that because I want to focus a bit more on my stand-up. For you see, my cross-training isn’t just in empty-hand arts, but defensive firearms (especially handgunning) is a martial art for me as well. My cross-training blends firearms and empty-hand arts, and for me wanting to focus on my hand work is currently where my goals lie. Eventually I’ll dive into BJJ, but for now digesting the “stand-up” curriculum at my new school is certainly enough. I want to get up to speed with the stand-up stuff quickly. I’d like to build my new stack a little higher before I start building out.

To cross-train or not? That’s a personal matter. Don’t just cross-train because it’s trendy, but choose what approach you take based upon the goals that you have for yourself. Remember that martial arts are a personal journey, so make sure you’re on the journey that you want to take.

How much do you know?

/ hsoi / 3 Comments

As I was writing this post over at martialartsplanet.com, I was quoting an interview with the Grandmaster of the art which I used to study, Kuk Sool Won. In that quote SUH In Hyuk said:

When I asked how many techniques he possessed, he said that there are 57 joint lock techniques. At the same time in the neighborhood, there was another “Yawara” master who had learned the traditional Japanese martial arts, who claimed to know more than Grandmaster Choi.

When I was typing up that post, it really struck me how quantity-centered Suh was. He cares how many techniques Choi Yong-Sool (considered the founder of Hapkido) knew, then seems to scoff because if this guy was such a great grandmaster how could he be if this other guy in town knew more? I guess that’s why Suh makes such a big deal out of touting Kuk Sool hosts 3608 techniques. Of course, most of those are super secret techniques that us common folk will never be privvy to, but hey… keep dangling that carrot.

Another art with similar quantity issues is Hwa Rang Do. Hwa Rang Do is an art contemporary with Hapkido and Kuk Sool (much twisted and interweaved history), and there they claim over 4000 techniques! Wow, they must be t3h d3adly!  There’s a group that’s at odds with Hwa Rang Do called Society of the Hwarang (more joyful bickering). While working on my MAP posting I revisited the Society page to get a link, but then spent some time on the page to refresh myself of the silliness. On the Society’s page there is an Open Letter that works to refute a lot about Hwa Rang Do. I thought this summed things up nicely.

There is one more serious flaw regarding joint locks in the Hwa Rang Do syllabus.  They don’t work against resistance!  I am not talking about someone grappling, or taking the fight to the ground.  I have an article on this point elsewhere in two pages called Joint Locks and Capturing, so, I am not going into detail here.  I can testify, however, that I have repeatedly given my wrist to Hwa Rang Do Black Belts and others as well, and I offered no more resistance than to relax or extend, and they can not execute any variation on the technique.  I learned this problem when I began teaching Defensive Tactics at ESI in 1980.  We get a very large number of accomplished martial artists, body builders and other individuals who have very strong joints.  Some ESI students can bench press 450 or 500 pounds, and they must be convinced that a technique will work on them before they will try it.  I actually learned a different concept in the execution of  joint locks long before starting ESI from an old Aspen Academy friend and associate, John Clodig, a disciple of Daito Ryu Jujitsu.  Clodig taught me the difference between a joint lock executed with a straight line and one executed with a spiral.  One must wonder  what happen in the transition to Joo Bang Lee via Yong Su Choi.  Unfortunately, students of Hwa Rang Do take pride in the number of techniques they remember rather than the ability to apply them in spontaneous settings.

Emphasis added.

The above just echos my past Kuk Sool training. All about memorization; lack of alive and resisting training, little application of the techniques.

Bill “Superfoot” Wallace was a dominant and undefeated tournament fighter, but he didn’t have a gazillion techniques in the ring. Wallace just had a few techniques but knew them very well and knew how to apply them very well. In the end, it isn’t always about what and how much you know, but what you can do with what you know.

After class…

/ hsoi

Just got back from another class. Tonight was Muay Thai/JKD technique work, and western boxing.

I am pooped. 😎 I am pumped.

Lots of people in class tonight, including at least 3 new folks. That was cool. It’s nice to get to know other people that start at about the same time as you as you become a “class” (like a graduating class) together, going through the same things, learning, getting hit, bruised, banged up together.

During the Muay Thai/JKD class, I realized how much I need to unlearn from what I did in the past. Changes in mechanics, how to approach things. Working to break the old paradigm, leave it behind. Don’t discard the knowledge, but allow myself to accept the new motions without the old stuff tripping me up.

I also found it interesting that for all I know, how much of it I don’t really know. That is, I know it in terms of having it memorized in my head, but not memorized in my muscles, if you will. So much of the Kuk Sool work was memorization and very little on practical application of what you had memorized. This was one of my problems with my practice. So while I’m here in class working, my brain recognizes a lot of angles, joint locks, throws, sweeps, but my body doesn’t know how to put them into play smoothly and dynamically. This is one reason why I left, and one reason why I started at this new school. Theory is good, but you need application of that theory to make it truly useful.

I shouldn’t paint the picture that I’m totally inept. Rather, the difference between my previous martial arts study and my current martial arts study is one of actual application and practice. So far every class I’ve taken at this new school, I’m coming home exhausted, sweaty, smelly, muscles are tired and sore the next day, I took a few shots, I have some bruises. There’s no cooperative dancing. Sure we’re learning, sure we’re doing drills, but it’s work. I like this.

Another thing I’m finding I like is the limited focus. In Kuk Sool, there’s such a broad curriculum that you dabble in little things all the time. Plus each class was a grand unknown as to what was to be worked. Here at Warrior’s Edge, the classes are well-defined as to what you will be doing. If you go Monday at 7:30 PM you will be doing western boxing, period. But note, that’s the only western boxing class all week. But so far, I’m liking that. It allows me to go to class to learn, then I go home and spend the week practicing the few things that I was taught. Come back next week, show what I learned, learn a little more. It seems to be a better fit for actual learning: the class is a class, meant for teaching, not to just come and “get a workout” (tho certainly you get that). At my old Kuk Sool school, I don’t think a lot of people there practiced outside of class (apart from ensuring stuff was memorized); thus, class time was practice time too. I think that detracted. Go to school to learn, then leave and do your homework.

Speaking of all that tho, after tonight’s MT/JKD class, I thought to myself that I might want to review some Kuk Sool techniques, such as Ki Bohn Soo. Keep the locks, angles, sweeps, and throws in my head.

Well, this post has been rather rambling. Just a lot of disjointed thoughts after tonight’s classes. I’m happy I made the switch.

Painting still lifes

/ hsoi

In continuing my readings on new martial endeavors, I come across this statement from DaeHanL:

I think the mentality of having to use technique “A” when Attack “A” is used, and not understanding the endless uses for the concept, is very common for a simple reason. Much like how many artists can draw very well as long as they are looking at something, but have a difficult time drawing from memory or just by using their creativity. We must understand the composition so well, and have the skill necessary to create, before we can ever break away from painting still life.

It says a couple things to me.

First, having a foundation in “classical mess” has utility. It gives you a solid foundation upon which to build (which can include discarding). I’ve found that people that tend to do best in “free form” tended to have some sort of solid background. For instance, maybe they’re great at jazz improv, but they first had formal schooling in music theory, composition, history, performance. We must remember that knowledge is what others have learned and are willing to pass on. We can discover all of these things ourselves… eventually. How efficient is that? There are some that have no formal schooling and talk about how they discovered or invented blah blah, only to share this with a knowledgeable someone and then discover that blah blah is already known, has been for years, and sometimes you find out that blah blah has been discredited or discarded on the whole because it has problems. If we built upon the knowledge of those before us, how much more efficient, productive, and successful could we have been in our own search for Truth? This is the point of “formal education” thus, spending time to learn a formal system is not a bad thing as it gives you someones’ notion of knowledge and Truth. It allows you a foundation to build upon, and hopefully helps you to get to The Truth a bit faster since you won’t need to repeat the effort, mistakes, and failings that have already been made.

Second, to move beyond “classical mess” you need a way to be creative. If all an artist did when they painted was to paint still life, they could never move beyond it. Thus from time to time the artist will need to change their venue and paint from memory or paint in a creative free-form. Certainly at first their efforts will be below their normal still-life output quality, but with repeated work, the hope and intent is they will exceed that still-life quality; in fact, they will find themselves and their style of drawing instead of the style of their teacher. In martial arts, you can remain within the framework of a “classical mess” but if there’s never an outlet to freely apply that mess, to move beyond it, then you’re relegated to still-life… never aliveness. This was my problem with my Kuk Sool study. It’s “classical mess” and good for what that is, but it was always “still-life”. Even if we did spar, the sparring was simple striking-only tournament-rules light/no-contact point sparring. There was no venue for application of techniques: no sweeping, no throwing, no “fighting tactics” (e.g. in point sparring you never want to get hit else you have a point scored against you; in a real fight, you may be willing to eat a punch if it allows you an avenue towards decisive victory). However, point sparring is a fair way to start. It’s a way to look at fighting from a still-life perspective: it lets you look at the composition, obtain basic skills. The question becomes if you’re willing to move beyond it, or if you’re fine painting still-lifes.

A New Journey – Part 2: Things Fall Apart

/ hsoi / 3 Comments

This is part 2 in the story of my new martial arts journey. If you have not yet “Part 1: Getting Started“, you should go back and read it before continuing. Once you’ve finished reading part 1, continue on to read how Things Fall Apart.

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A New Journey – Part 1: Getting Started

/ hsoi / 2 Comments

There have been a lot of changes going on in the household. As Wife and I look at them, they’re all very good things towards taking us individually closer to where we want to be and also as a group/family taking us where we want to be. Here I want to talk about one big change that I’m making in my life:

My martial arts study.
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Fast or accurate?

/ hsoi / 4 Comments

Fast or accurate? Pick one, because you can’t have both. Yes sure you can always be faster, you can always be more accurate, and to some degree you can always improve your level of both. But in the end, to get the most accuracy you’ll have to give up some speed, or to get the most speed you’ll have to give up some accuracy.

Caleb is participating in the Bianchi Cup and posted his results from The Mover.

The thing that I’ve learned about Bianchi is that accuracy is EVERYTHING. No one cares about how fast you are, because just about everyone can make the time limits here. Shooting IDPA or USPSA isn’t great practice for Bianchi…but shooting Bianchi will make you better at IDPA and USPSA.

I know I focus a lot on speed. I think about defensive shooting and how seconds are critical, so my brain thinks “must be fast”. Lately I’ve been trying to pull myself back on that. When I do my dry fire practice, I’ve been working on being slow and smooth: “slow is smooth, smooth is fast”. I’m trying to be accurate, I’m trying to be precise and correct. I wanted to go to the gun range yesterday and do the KR Training 100 Round Practice drill, but given the impending holiday weekend figured I was better off getting job work done first then visiting the range after the weekend. Still, that sort of drill is all about accuracy (not speed) and what you must to to be accurate.

I think about my last black belt testing or even being in normal classes. One frustrating thing is how there’s so much emphasis on speed. Maybe not directly, such as the instructor saying “OK, everyone go fast” but when you get in a group there’s all this pressure to not be the last one done… so everyone zooms along. I kinda hate to see that because accuracy goes down. You watch the group and it can look like a sloppy mess. If I’m in class and get to do something like forms on my own pace, I take my time. Sure I try to still apply the five principles of form, movements are still meaningful. But I try to be accurate, I try to be correct first, fast later. 

I’ve often said that no one cares about the first person to get the wrong answer. That can apply in many ways. To throw a fast kick that doesn’t find its target, to rush a draw and peel off a shot that misses the A-Zone on an IPSC target. It all doesn’t matter. I want to make every shot count, every punch matter. So, I have to slow down. I know this, I’ve known this. I’m still struggling to apply this, but thankfully it’s happening. 🙂

Applying what you know to what you don’t know

/ hsoi / 4 Comments

So after having made a cane and immersing myself in cane videos, I got to thinking about further ways to study the cane.

You see, in Kuk Sool’s cane curriculum, there’s only a limited bit of cane taught. This is understandable, and really no one system or style can teach it all — they’re all limited in some manner or other. Thus to really get the most out of something you need to freely explore it on your own. Still, sometimes it’s tough to freely explore something without at least some degree of direction to get started in. I’ve found something that works for this and I’d like to share it with you.

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