There are a lot of reasons I left Boy Scouts of America. I support the general nature of what they do, building character, building leadership. The Scout Oath and Law are some pretty good guidelines to live your life by. There are a lot of good skills that are taught.
But then, there’s shit like this.
When he first met with organizers, [Jon] Langbert told them he was gay, and that his son was interested in joining. There were no problems then, he said.
So, he participated in as many activities with Carter and the pack as he could. Langbert said when Cub Scout Pack 70 was low on money, he hit the streets and raised more than $13,000 last year.
That is what Scouting needs more than anything else: parents dedicated and willing to help and contribute. I should know. I spent many years as a Cub Scout Pack Den Leader, and I know what really makes a Pack go and a program successful is parents willing to step up and help out. Scouting needs more parents like Jon Langbert.
But instead….
“I just found out a few days ago that some of the dads are not happy about having a gay guy running the popcorn fundraiser,” Langbert said.
Once the parents complained, Langbert was told he could no longer hold a leadership position in the Boy Scouts of America. They even took his leadership shirt away.
So it was fine when “the gay guy” was raising $13,000 for the Pack (which is an amazing amount of money for a Pack to have), but it’s not fine that he’s gay. OK then… you guys willing to give up the $13,000 he raised? I didn’t think so. My guess is the Pack leadership didn’t have a problem, but some parents did. So what furthermore burns my butt is the leaders not standing up for both Langbert AND their original decision.
Officials with the Boy Scouts of America said their policy does not permit leaders to be gay or atheist.
“Sexuality of any level does not have a place in the Boy Scouts of America,” said Pat Currie, spokesman with the Boy Scouts of America. “What we are all about is teaching kids lifetime values and trying to develop characters and make them better citizens … We are not about sexual orientation.”
Bullshit.
BSA is very much about sexual orientation! The fact you don’t want fags in your midst tells me you do care about sexual orientation and only wish to permit heterosexuality. The lifetime value you’re teaching here is intolerance and exclusion of people you don’t like.
Langbert said he wants the Boy Scouts to change their policy. He said his pack is meeting Monday at the University Park Elementary School, and hopes the school will reevaluate its connection with the Boy Scouts.
[…]
The Supreme Court ruled in 2000 that the Boy Scouts of American does not have to allow gay individuals into its organization. Langbert said he is researching legal action.
Yes, the whole meeting at a school thing is a sticky situation. But honestly Langbert, legal action? give it up. BSA is a private organization and the courts have already upheld that they can do this. And frankly, that’s the way it should be. If we could force any private organization to behave in the way someone else wanted them to behave well, that’d be an ugly day for America and freedom.
If you really want to put your energy into something, put it into other organizations. There are other “youth groups” like this out there. Trouble is, they are few, far between, and often kinda suck. But this is where a dedicated parent like Jon Langbert can help to promote and improve those organizations.
This is part of why BSA is dying. The world is becoming a more tolerant and accepting place, but BSA isn’t. That is their perrogative, and I do respect them for standing up for what they believe in. But like all dinosaurs, if you fail to adapt, you will go extinct.
When it comes to gays and lesbians, I really don’t care. You live your life, I’ll live mine. With 6 billion people in this world, there are going to be some people who do things I don’t care for, and there are going to be some people who don’t like what I do. So long as we don’t tread on each other, so what? You have your right to life, liberty, and pursuit of your happiness, just like I do.
Freedom is something we must give to others if we wish it for ourselves.
Stuff From Hsoi 
I’ve got many mixed feelings about this one.
First, I think Scouting should accept gays but there are other organizations as you mention if a person wants to get his/her children involved in an activity.
Second, the problem that I saw on the television is that Langbert admitted he wasn’t a Scout Leader but was wearing the Scout Uniform. Only Scout Leaders should be wearing the uniform — because they’ve been checked out and have gone through training.
And in this case, I fully support the required training. There are valid reasons for the training; both to insure the Scouting organization is protected as well as the kids and the Leaders.
Lastly, Langbert knew the Scouting policy toward leaders — but still accepted the role. This sort of smells of a set up to a degree. I have no doubt he sincerely wants to help but it would be almost impossible for an adult, especially a gay adult, not to know the Scouting policy. The fact that he is considering a lawsuit adds to that impression.
See, I figured there was only part of the story being told.
1. It would be nice if they accepted gays and atheists, but it does run counter to what they believe so…. there you go. It just gives reason to support other organizations and build them up.
2. Ah, that is a problem. If he wasn’t an official registered leader, didn’t do the BSA training and so on, no he shouldn’t be presenting himself as one (e.g. wearing the shirt). Now, nothing says a “pure parent” can’t take charge of an event, like running the popcorn sales… in fact, pure parents are encouraged to step up and help with events.
2b. Yes, the training is good. Went through a lot of it myself, and even was the Training Chair for our Pack for a few years. Training is a good thing and BSA works hard to keep their training programs up to date and useful.
3. This is where there are questions. Everyone knew policy… Langbert knew policy, but still did it. The Pack leadership knew policy, but still allowed it. So… what gives here?
As for his lawsuit, on what grounds? I really can’t see anything holding up since the courts have already been pretty clear on this. Any legal action on his part would just be a waste of time and money for him. Frankly if he has that much energy and money, he should spend it in a more positive way, working to build and grow these other energies. I mean, the guy has demonstrated he’s got skills and dedication ($13,000 is amazing popcorn sales), so he really should continue to put his positive energies forward in a way that does good and helps his son see how to turn a bad situation into an opportunity for betterment (instead of petty lawsuits).
I do wish BSA would join the modern era, but it’s their prerogative not to. It’s a shame tho, because the majority of what BSA espouses is good solid stuff for any and every person.
Jon Langbert is actually an old college buddy of mine – we were in the UT engineering program together before he switched over to business.
I loved scouting as a kid. All the interests I have today can go back to the values and events that scouting has and does. I feel, like you, that BSA is not the organization it used to be. Our region seems to be pushing the christian stuff more than general morals. I do not recall that being the case in the 70s and 80 when I was a scout. Sad.
Love your blog, by the way. Check you most mornings. Keep up the good work.
Same thing for me. I had a fantastic time as a Cub Scout and a Boy Scout. Learned a lot and had a lot of good things imbued in me. But was there loads of religious push? Nope. It was at whatever level worked for you… some boys did their religious medals, others could have cared less, and it was all fine.
I grant that one reason BSA has become the organization they now are is because of lawsuits, both lawsuits they’ve experienced and to fend off potential future lawsuits. I can’t say I blame them, but it’s also a shame that it’s caused the organization to be run more by fear and lawyers than the principles they espouse to teach.
Brian,
Having been an adult leader in the recent past (i.e. last 3 years), I agree that it is more troop level versus national organization.
I think part of it does have to do with the lawsuits, as Hsoi said, but in a round about way.
Hard to remember but each troop is individually chartered to a sponsoring organization; many sponsoring organizations have been pushed to drop Scout Packs and Troops; this results in less secular groups chartering more troops.
Then the leaders are usually drawn from the sponsoring organization, at least at the Committee level — and if Adult leaders don’t agree with the chartering organization or Committee goals, they leave or move to other troops.
I do know that the Church of the Latter Day Saints has incorporated Scouting as part of their youth groups — that is why LDS sponsors so many troops.
As an adult leader in the troop, i (and those I worked with) never pushed the scouts toward religion. We did have church service and prayer as part of our regular rituals, but that was because a.) the majority of the troop wanted it (we asked often) and b.) we were sponsored by a church, drawing many members from the church.
If a Scout or parent wasn’t a member of the church, many of them enrolled in our troop because of the nature of our leaders.
I’m not sure if you’ve seen it but we saw more than a few, shall we say non-prime examples of what adult leaders should have been in other troops.