This is part 3 of my story of my new martial arts journey. If you have not yet read “Part 1: Getting Started” or “Part 2: Things Fall Apart“, you should go back and read them before continuing. Once you’ve gotten caught up, please continue reading on how I’m now moving forward.
Moving Forward
So now what am I going to do?
The key to note is that the past couple years I’ve been studying other combatives, often involving firearms. I’ve taken some courses that involve “modern combatives” that integrate empty hand work with handguns, and find this to be practical for me. I like Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kune Do because, while some consider it a style, it’s actually more of a philosophy: take what is useful and discard the rest, discarding classical mess, expressing yourself, simplicity. I have to work to find my style, what works for me. Kuk Sool was too rigid and you had to do things “the Kuk Sool way”, and sorry but what works for me and what works for you aren’t likely to be 100% the same. I like to strip things down to what’s simple and what works and allows you to inflict maximum damage in minimal time, being direct and solid. For instance, I appreciated Greg Hamilton‘s approach with some unarmed combatives, stressing using palm strikes and elbows because they are less likely to damage you (punch someone in the face with an ungloved closed fist and you’ll likely break your hand) and inflict lots of damage to your opponent. There’s no rules, there’s no being pretty, it’s about surviving and winning in a fight.
I realize one place I’m sorely deficient in is my hand work. While Kuk Sool may have had “hand striking techniques” there was never really any serious work given to it. Now I can say with Dewain some was done because Dewain was big into western boxing, so I did learn some things, but not enough and certainly not much regular practice and application. Consequently, I have given thought to studying western boxing. There’s the handwork, the footwork, the defensive body movement. There’s much to be learned from western boxing that I think would fit right in with what I’m wanting towards a more modern combatives fighting style that works for me. Muay Thai is another consideration, especially since it throws in things like elbows and knees, clinching, and yes even kicking.
Some have suggested I should look at Krav Maga, but while on the surface it does seem solid, it also comes across to me like “martial aerobics”. Again like Kuk Sool, the foundational art is solid, but it all depends how you get taught. From what I can see around here, it’s intense aerobics and close minds (i.e. “our art is the best”). Been there, done that, looking to move forward.
I’ve also considered Filipino Martial Arts. FMA, from what I can tell, are no-BS. It’s straightforward about fighting and combat.
It’s a simple art that is based on principles, not just memorization of fancy movements. Sure there are drills, sure there’s actual stuff to memorize and so on, but it’s a simple art that orignated in a need to educate “untrained villagers” on how to fight and to do so in short order. It allows people to grow and flow in their own way, finding what works for them. It seems to mix well with JKD concepts and having an open mind towards fighting. I also like the direct weaponry of choice as the baton flows well into a cane, and knives are useful defensive tools (tho mighty ugly). Some flavors of FMA even branch into the realm of firearms. There are many other subtlties about FMA that appeal to me. So I’m going to check it out. There are a few schools in town.
I must also say that some things that influence my desire to go this route are looking at some of the practitioners, such as the Dog Brothers, and SouthNarc. In fact, I’m registered to take a Combined Skills class in September that will be taught by SouthNarc and Tom Givens. I’m looking forward to that, as that is the sort of training I’m seeking at this stage of my life.
I’m not saying I’m going to study FMA (or whatever I choose) for the rest of my life. At this point, it’s exploratory. FMA seems to provide something that will work towards my goals. One cool thing is there’s a school nearby called Warrior’s Edge Academy, run by a man named Ray Parra. Curriculum seems exactly the sort of thing I’m wanting, and from what I can find the instructors and instruction are legit and respected. This ain’t no McDojo.
What does all this mean? Change. Evolution. I don’t regret the past, but I feel I would regret it if I hung onto my past. No one person, group, entity, has the sole Truth. It’s good to study other perspectives, it’s good to explore, learning from others, learning other styles, other philosopies, other approaches. They give you more perspective on life and it all comes together towards helping you find the Truth you seek. I do consider my study of martial arts to be a journey. I look further down the road I’ve been traveling and I don’t like what I see. But there are other paths that lead me to my goal. I may never reach my goal, but that’s OK as it’s merely a guide to give my journey some sort of direction. I struggled for quite a long time about taking this left turn, but I’m finally at peace with it. I believe it’s the right thing for me to do.
Onwards and upwards.
Stuff From Hsoi 
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All of what you say is so very true. And that’s why at least here in Cedar Park, I am happy where I’m at. We’re Tae-Kwon-Do in curriculum, but we’re closer to Jeet Kune Do in spirit because we focus on fighting – not art. Sure there is art part in curriculum to belt up, but only half the time is spent on that. The rest is on what to do in a real fight – run. If you can’t run – then fight and live. We do boxing, grappling, ground fighting, and kicking. Some of our black belts are Krav guys, Wing Tsun guys, and more.
Its all about how to protect yourself and your family in a real world situation.
Ultimately that is what it’s about – the training, not the art. The body only does so many things, and in the end most styles really are the same thing or have enough cross-over and similarity. Sure, what makes a style a style is their philosophy and approach and there is something unique to that. But in the end it’s the training. I mean, you could study what’s considered the most badass style in the world, but if your teacher and/or the teaching approach sucks then it doesn’t matter. Or you could take the most crappy style in the world, but if you’ve got the right teacher with the right teaching, then you should do great. Of course, so long as things are approaching whatever training goals you have.
So you see, you’ve got yourself a great setup, which is fantastic. My setup wasn’t bad and frankly if my goals hadn’t changed I’d probably still be there. But goals changed and now I need to look for something else that allows me to continue to meet those goals. Hopefully the new place I’ve found will get me there. If nothing else, it’s exposure to something new and some expansion of knowledge.
Hi Hsoi,
Reading your “Journey” segment was liking reading my thoughts on paper. I’m sure you have heard by now, but I left the WKSW a few months ago. The seminar was the nail in the coffin for me and it’s refreshing to see that I am not the only one that was a bit sickened by the item hocking.
I’ve taken up BJJ full time and I love it. There practical approach to resistant training is refreshing and yes I understand the differences between sport Jiu Jitsu and Jiu Jitsu for self defense. My original Hapkido instructor does fill in the gaps well with practical application. I will miss everyone from the dojang, but boy it is comforting to know I made the right decision, however difficult it was. My goal is to open my own school in five years and with the state of the association for Kuk Sool, I just couldn’t in good conscience continue. Good luck with your journey sir and it was always a pleasure training with you.
Joseph:
No, I didn’t hear that you left, but then I hadn’t been frequenting the dojang much the past some months due to my own changing situation. To hear that we were on the same wavelength here makes me feel a little less like “this is just me” and a little more like “it’s the way things are”. Granted this is still mainly me because it’s me pursuing my own goals, and the way things are now can certainly still serve the goals of others. It’s just no longer a fit for me, and apparently you. You know, as I think back to the seminar and you and I were partnered up, yeah, there was a “vibe” about you that day. Now it’s all clear. 🙂
That’s great that you’re doing BJJ. You’re a young guy, strong guy, talented guy. I know you’ll do great with it and that BJJ will work for you.
Good luck on your continued journey. I’m sure we’ll cross paths. 🙂
Very well written down. I came from Europe with a taekwondo and hapkido background and thought that KSW would be very familiar and a good match so I could continue my trainings. Unfortunately the whole dancing part and lack of aliveness is very true, and very lacking. Big difference of what I was used to. Tried the “empty your cup” for a while now, but it just does not feel right anymore, especially within the new school. Wish you all be best with your future endeavors, and hope to meet you again to exchange experiences!
Thank you, Robbin. I remember your first days at “our” dojang and I could tell you came from a different angle. On the one hand, I had to push the status quo, but on the other I was so longing for the sort of direction you were coming from. There’s a place for “dancing”, but if you don’t go beyond it, what’s the point? But then, there are some that prefer to just dance and there’s nothing wrong with that. Just not for us. Oh well, we move on.
I’m sure we’ll cross paths again. Heck, this is making me wonder if us “ex’s” might want to get together in the park once in a while and “talk shop”, spar, exchange ideas, and so on.
Definitely! I’m all for exchanging ideas. Nobody is the same, so you cannot keep training the same way/thing all the time. So different points of view is the way to go.
hey, thanks for sharing. interesting, brought back memories when we were non-black belts. we had fun, times were exciting, no BS for mandatory volunteering, and most of all, we got what we put in (money or effort).
I dont regret dropping out… it was my time to get out, and yes I did not make Black Belt, but I was pretty close… life got in the way.
Distractions are constant in our lives, but glad (very glad) that you and your family are finding things that allow you to follow your passion. Things that interest you and your way of life.
Things are the same here, as we evolve, or mature or what ever you want to call it. Martial Arts is not about a specific style or association. It is about the journey of the person who walks that path. The journey should bring joy, knowing that you are doing things you want to do, not have to do.
I am glad you shared this with us. Helps me understand why I dropped… heck work is not the only reason we stop doing some hobbie… we stop because something went wrong, or it was no longer fun. You can be proud to know you did earn a well deserved black belt.
With that, thanks for sharing, and when are we going to make that run to north side of town to get some good korean food ?
Garnie, I agree… times back then were a lot of fun.
I did miss you when you left, but you had your reasons and in the end I think it worked out great for you. I mean, the level of involvement you now have with Scouting is awesome. You’re doing a great thing there. We’ve all got our journeys to take.
So yeah, we need to do some lunch. Name time. 🙂
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Thanks so much for your thoughts and experiences. I too have issue with the $$$$ focus, one of the reasons I swithced form Cedar Park school to Oak Hill to begin with some 7 years ago. The best part of KS was the people I was able to train with, learning from each other as well as from a Master/Teacher. That is life in general. We all learn a basic set of tools that we can share and incorporate with others making experiences meaningful for all. Again, thank you.
Renee, thank you for your comments.
I must agree that the people in Kuk Sool are a large part of the benefit. That was probably the hardest part about leaving.
I too started looking for something else to study. The thing that I did not like was that if you got your black belt in The World Kuk Sool Association you had to stay with the art, you were not alloud to explore other aspecs of Martial arts. I undertstand that leaving Kuk sool was not easy, but maybe this is the best opportunity to keep seeking something you never thought was out there. After all there is no such thing as the best Martial art, but rather how the indivisual utilizes it. I enjoyed reading what you had to say
I can respect that WKSA wishes to keep their art pure. That is, they say “this is our art” and don’t want people to go off and cross-train, pull in and teach other aspects of other arts. Even if they don’t pass it off as Kuk Sool, even if they make it clear “this is some other art”, over time such things will cause a blending and dilution of the core art. So I honestly can respect a desire to want to teach one thing and keep their system intact. I have no problem there.
But to prohibit others from freely studying and associating in other ways? Well… why? What’s the fear? Are you afraid others might see the faults in your art and see the real truth of things? What’s there to hide? If the art is so awesome, why wouldn’t you want free assocation with others to help promote it and demonstrate it? Let it truly stand on its merits and the rest will take care of itself.
And of course, this inability to associate with others, it’s where the term “cult-like” starts to pop up. I certainly wouldn’t call WKSA a cult, but I can see how people would describe it in those terms.
So it was tough leaving, no doubt. But I’m fine with it and am really enjoying my new study. I don’t wish to speak ill of WKSA, but I will speak honestly of my experiences, my opinions, and will be critical only because well… like a loving parent I’m critical of my children because I want the best for them; I want them to be the best, I want them to succeed. I would love WKSA to succeed, but I guess they have to figure out what success means to them first: great martial art, or great way to make money.
Hsoi,
Wow, great post and you put to words things I have thought for many years.
I first learned about KSW while stationed out in CA. I worked hard at KS, made it up to brown black before leaving California and moving to TX for a year, then finally moved back home to New England. Once back here, there were no schools at all to be found. So I took up Ed Parker’s Kenpo system. It was alright, but the instructor was not all that good, the schools founder had lost his son a few years early in a gang fight.. so it had some issues. I started longing for KSW. Then I found Marlin Sims old school in Mahopac. I started going there every month for a saturday, driving 3 hours each way to help run classes and then the instructor would personally train me for about 2 – 3 hours getting me back up to snuff to test for black belt. Eventually, after testing once, a school opened up in boston and I was able to train somewhat locally. I made my black belt the following year and then had some life changing events and havent really been back in the past 2-3 years.
I have been considering going back, but the very things you mention are what make me hesitate. All techniques are done from one side of your body. All of them are taught and practiced while static. There is no live action. If the techniques were structured similar to Kenpo’s then at least it would be somewhat realistic, but they aren’t. Who is ever going to run into a front kick, straight punch in today’s world?
Then the weapons. Sword I love because its elegant to me and the higher level reverse forms are tough and look amazing. Are they applicable? Well, no not really. I remember some of the literature mentioning Korean police use ropes as martial arts weapons, yet there is one series of rope techniques. Dan-bon is the same way.
I love the foundation I got from KSW and I am very comfortable in most situations now if someone grabs me in a variety of different ways, but like you I have been contemplating Jeet Kun Do for its flexible approach, or perhaps Aikido or Hapkido.
Great post..
It’s an interesting thing. I posted about this and so many people came out of the woodwork, either privately or publicly, telling me the same thing.
One thing I will say about Kuk Sool techniques is they aren’t necessary meant to be a how-to for self-defense. A lot of the technique sets are designed to teach principles. For instance, Maek Chi Ki and Maek Cha Ki are primarily about teaching targets. They also start to introduce the concepts of distance, moving, and more dynamic application. Sure no one is ever going to actually attack you with a kick-punch combo, but again the technique sets are about concepts. It’s an abstract thing, concepts, principles, not necessarily a how-to. But as well, they are a bit about conditioning your body to behave a certain way… so it’s really both, but I tend to put a little more weight on the “abstract” side of things.
But so much the trouble with how Kuk Sool is taught is that it never goes beyond that.
Like you mention with weapons, there’s rope techniques but only 10 of them. There’s cane techniques but only 10 of them. But is there a truly deeper study of cane or rope? or heck, dan bong isn’t given anything more than a couple forms and meditations…. no there really isn’t in terms of formal curriculum. Now this isn’t to say if you’re fortunate enough to have a good teacher that you can’t learn something, or that if you’re bright enough on your own and have other willing people to practice with that you can’t go and explore things on your own. But again, formally the curriculum just doesn’t take things beyond. If you want to go beyond you have to seek it. There may be others in your dojang willing to explore more… but even then part of that problem is it’s people in a closed system working together. Sure to some extent this works out, but then if you tried to work with say a BJJ blue belt or a boxer, you’d probably get p0wn3d. But on the same token, if you have that ability to work with others outside of Kuk Sool and really put your stuff to the test, then things can work out.
I don’t want people to think that I’m hatin’ on Kuk Sool, because I think the art is a good one and has a lot of potential. The trouble is the way it’s handled these days that potential isn’t able to be realized. It’s too much about money, it’s too much trying to be all things to everyone, and that’s just a recipe for failure.
So far my study of JKD, Kali, Muay Thai, Silat, and western boxing is going very well. I enjoy the simplicity of it, I enjoy not being bound by someone else’s interpretation of things. I’m able to find myself as a fighter.
I think Aikido is pretty cool and would love to study it someday. It’s got a great philsophy. Tho I must admit, as I get older I think I may end up studying something like Baguazhang. Who knows. For now, this is just part of my journey. 🙂
Thanx for stopping by and sharing.
Hsoi,
I am impressed with how you have expressed your thoughts. You have managed to discuss a very touchy subject in a way that does not come across as offensive. I studied primarily under Dewain Perry and earned my black belt under him. Perry was one of the best KSW had to offer. Under his instruction I was able to take the static and passive practice and make them work in a abstract free form way. Dewain had a background of competing in MA tournaments open to any MA. He had a lot of application experience to offer. So, in my opinion, it comes down to who is teaching you. In my opinion, KSW’s foundation IS solid. However, the WKSWA’s environment does seem to build instructors like Perry anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I know many of the instructors currently running schools, and they are really good people and have a lot to offer. Their focus, in my opinion, is mainly on health, curriculum memorization and demonstration. If a student’s focus is learning combat… I think KSW is as good a place to start as any, but some point a student will likely start having the same questions you are bringing up.
You mentioned Aikido as something you would be interested in looking into. I attended Birdsong’s school in north Austin for a time. I really liked him. If I understand correctly, Birdsong is one of the “Big Wigs” for Aikido in the USA. His school was well run; the students respectful of each other and the assistant instructors did not display issues with ego. I really enjoyed my time there. Aikido shared many of the joint manipulations that I had learned in KSW, but how you got to the point of applying the technique was very different. Technique practice was different, but still the same “passive” way you mentioned. *Granted, I did not attend classes for advanced students. It is possible that they practiced their techniques actively with uncooperative partners. Anyway, I just wanted to shed what little light I had on Aikido.
I’ve looked around for a reputable Wing Chun school as it, like FMA, seems to offer a lot of practical combat techniques that work with empty hand or with weapons. The only school I know of that I have a good reference for is Master Guerra’s school. …but it is Way out of my range as I live far south.
If you find a place that offers what you are looking for… update your post or e-mail me please. I would be interested in what you have to say. Thanks again for sharing.
Take care.
Dewain was a gem and I do miss him. If things didn’t fall apart for him personally and he was going strong like he was back in his best days then I’m sure I’d still be training under him. Well… maybe. It depends where Dewain would have ended up in all the WKSA split “franchise” drama. I know Dewain was very loyal to Kuk Sah Nim and may have stuck with him. But, it’s all speculation at this point.
You are right tho… it’s more about the teacher than the art. In the end, the body can only do so many things, move so many ways, so it’s all about how it’s applied and how you get there. Dewain did a great job at real fighting, but also at point sparring and demonstrations… he really had it all. Kuk Sool as an art has such a great foundation and has such great potential… but I guess that doesn’t sell. The reality tho is that it does sell… if you look at where the “martial arts business” world is going, more and more people want real training, real skills, real stuff for the real world. Yes there are still folks that want fitness, flash, and fun.. and well, Kuk Sool seems to want to cater to those people. That’s fine, it’s just no longer my goal. I think Kuk Sool gave me a great foundation and I don’t regret the experience, but life goes on.
That’s great to hear about Birdsong. His school was a consideration for me, but it’s too far away to be able to travel on a regular basis. That’s my main problem is time and the lack of it. I technically hold 4 jobs (including my own company) and I just don’t have the time. I tried going to Ray Parra’s school for a little while, and while I really enjoyed it it never clicked with me, mostly due to schedule… only a few class times and it didn’t work out with my schedule. I found myself missing more and more classes and figured there was no point in spending money for something I wasn’t using so I stopped.
The guy I want to train with? Leslie Buck: http://tacticalarts.com/ I met Leslie through firearms (he came out to KR Training for instruction), and he’s simply awesome. Well respected worldwide, legit, skills… just solid solid stuff. He’s a good teacher, a good system, and it meshes with my goals. But I’m back to the same problem of time. His school is up north and the total time investment would be 3-4 hours 3 days a week (drive up, class, drive back, etc.) and I just don’t have that time. 😦 So, I’ve had to put my desires to train regularly with Leslie on hold.
In fact, all of my martial arts training is on hold right now. I’m kinda unhappy about that, but I can only do so much. I’m trying to focus more on my firearms skills right now. But as well, since I need some sort of exercise I was fortunate to find a gym within walking distance of my house and so I’m presently doing a lot of weightlifting, strength training (you can see the logs on my blog). It only takes about 60-90 minutes of my day, which I can manage (and doesn’t require extra practice time outside of class either, so that’s even better in terms of schedule), it keeps my body in good shape, and gives me something to work with. Plus it’s fun to explore. I mean, I deadlifted 255# for 5 reps yesterday, which isn’t some huge record or anything but was a first for me and felt pretty cool. 🙂
If things change for me tho and time becomes less tight for me, no question I’ll go train with Leslie.