A burglar in Georgetown ran away with empty hands and an eyeful Wednesday night when he was confronted by a nude, pistol-packing homeowner.
[…]
“I have a tattoo of the grim reaper, my hair is sticking up all crazy and I’m naked,” said the homeowner, who asked that his name be withheld for safety reasons. “I’m not sure if (the burglar) was more afraid of me or the gun.”
So there you go. New home defense tactic. 😉
Some years ago I came across an essay by Jack Donovan called “Violence is Golden”.
Recently, Scott Faith revisited Jack’s essay.
Violence should not be a first resort, but sometimes it is the only resort. I think deep down everyone knows this, but there are those that want to deny it. Or at least, they cannot see themselves performing violence, consider it icky, and thus others shouldn’t partake in it either. But somehow they know that violence is sometimes necessary – without it, laws have no ground, no meaning., and society has no structure. And I think everyone has a line, it’s just a question of finding it. I hear many women that go on about how they could never hurt someone else, but are very willing to get “momma bear” protective if someone tries to hurt their children. There you go, there’s your line. Let’s look at forcible rape (forcible, as opposed to statutory); this is not a time for negotiation, this is a time for violent response because it’s demonstrated that rape victims who fight back fare far better than those who do not. Is there anyone not willing to draw a line here?
Have you ever trained a dog? When training a dog, you have to think like a dog. Dogs don’t understand human, they understand dog. For example, petting a dog is an act of reinforcement. If the dog is doing something and you pet it, the dog says “hey, whatever I’m doing is good, keep doing it”. But to a human, petting can be a comforting behavior. So for example, if your dog is afraid of thunderstorms, many people will pet their dog in an attempt to soothe and comfort the dog. This is bad; that’s human-think, not dog-think. What happens is the petting reinforces to the dog that being afraid of thunderstorms is what to do, and that’s not the behavior we want. To successfully work with a dog, you have to think and speak and act dog. You have to speak their language.
And so it goes with 2-legged predators as well. There are some people out there that only understand the language of violence. They will not listen to your begging, but they will listen to a gun muzzle pointed at them. Which speaks their language? Which will they understand? You cannot apply your standards, your morals, your behaviors and modes of thinking to all people because all people do not and will not think and behave like you – if they did, they wouldn’t be violating you right now, would they? Sometimes you have to speak their language, whether you like it or not. As Faith writes:
Violence should not be, and usually isn’t, the method of first resort in man’s dealings with his fellow man. But you’ve got to talk to people on a level that they understand; sometimes the only language they understand is that of violence. This is especially true when it comes to halting violence after it has already begun. After all, when people cry out for someone to “Do something!” about places like Syria and Iraq they don’t mean send in the State Department or the United Nations; in situations where “reason” fails, you don’t send memos you send the Marines.
What really touched me about Faith’s article was his addressing of the “Coexist” bumper sticker. Every time I see one (usually on a Prius), all I can think to myself is “Great! But I’m not the one you need to be proselytizing to; tell that to the people who are trying to kill me.” Or how wonderful it is to preach that from the safety of our country, behind the laws (force, violence) and law enforcement (police, military — you know, people with guns willing to perform violence by proxy for you). Faith writes:
Coexistence is a wonderful thing, as long as everyone is an equally-committed partner in the process. But if one player in the coexistence game decides to not go along with the program, then you could “coexist” yourself right out of existence. It’s the classic Prisoner’s Dilemma; at every level of human interaction, everyone is better off with cooperation. But the incentives to cheat are such that the fear of defection of others creates incentives to be the first to leave the collective. When it comes to pacifism, anyone declining to at least maintain the capability of violence will be at a distinct disadvantage, and the first to resort to violence will likely be the one left standing at the end of any conflict between them. This is why programs like “Global Zero” will never work; it overlooks a fundamental aspect of human nature. After all, in a society of the blind the one-eyed man in king; and in a society that has beaten all swords into plowshares, everything belongs to the man who kept his sword whole… unless another man with a sword stops him first. Si vis pacem, para violentus.
Faith concludes:
So we need not like violence, but we need to acknowledge the role it plays in securing our lives, liberty, property, and way of life. More than that; we need to embrace it, and stand eternally vigilant to carry it out either individually or collectively if (when) the need arises. There will always be someone who cheats, who defects, who simply doesn’t get with the “ideal world” program. If we don’t prepare for that, we are at the mercy of those who do. And on that note, I think that the best way to end this article is the same way it began, with a quote from Violence is Golden: “It’s time to quit worrying and learn to love the battle axe. History teaches us that if we don’t, someone else will.”
He (and Donovan) are right: we need not like violence, but we need to acknowledge the role it plays. Too often people want to just look at violence as a bad thing and believe that doing away with all violence is the solution and thus the goal to which we must strive. But not everyone will share your lofty goals, and there will be those that see your lofty goals as your weakness and use it against you. And then what will you do? As Donovan wrote:
However, the willful submission of many inevitably creates a vulnerability waiting to be exploited by any one person who shrugs off social and ethical norms. If every man lays down his arms and refuses to pick them up, the first man to pick them up can do whatever he wants. Peace can only be maintained without violence so long as everyone sticks to the bargain, and to maintain peace every single person in every successive generation — even after war is long forgotten — must continue to agree to remain peaceful. Forever and ever. No delinquent or upstart may ever ask, “Or Else What?,” because in a truly non-violent society, the best available answer is “Or else we won’t think you’re a very nice person and we’re not going to share with you.” Our troublemaker is free to reply, “I don’t care. I’ll take what I want.”
Violence is the final answer to the question, “Or else what?”
We cannot have a civilized society without violence. Violence is neither good nor bad; like all things, it’s how people use it that determine it’s merit. Striving to rid the world of violence is laudable, but naive, because how else can you enforce your mandate (as ironic as that would be)? Instead, acknowledge the role violence plays in creating a civilized society, and work to enable good people with the means by which to help maintain that vein of civilization.
Lynn Givens seems to have avoided being mugged, either for her electronics or her prescription drugs (or perhaps both). Lynn shared her experience on Facebook, both recounting the event and numerous learnings points. She’s fine and safe, and we’re thankful for her sharing so we can all learn.
What follows is a copy/paste of Lynn’s posting, which she has encouraged us to share.
I have been asked to repost this AAR to include the lessons I learned. I have done so. Share if you would like to.
Just The Facts Please:
Today, around 12:40 pm, I left Tom at home while I ventured out to Walmart. My intent was to pick up two prescriptions and look at their IPod selection, as mine had died.
I parked halfway out in the parking lot; did not want a dent in the ZBULLET; and entered the store near the pharmacy area. I went directly to the pharmacy area and waited in line. As I picked up my two prescriptions, the cashier informed me that I would need to show my driver’s license for ID, because my script was a controlled substance. I gave her my license and she pulled out a 3 ring binder and logged in my name, script number, DL and date. This transaction was done right there at the check-out register. I was going to pay for it later after I was done shopping.
I then headed back to electronics taking a very convoluted path, browsing at merchandise. In the midway, a young man came up and while standing within about 2 feet of me, started texting. As I tried to walk by him, he engaged me in conversation by saying to me, “that was my mom, she was just checking on me again.” Being polite, I said “that’s nice of her”. I then continued onto electronics.
When I got back there, he was waiting there and kept looking in my direction. I continued to look for the Apple Products and eventually asked a salesgirl for assistance. She showed me where they were, I said thank you, and continued to look at the selection. He walks over and asks me if I ever had an IPod before. I told him yes, mine was broken. He then just loomed around in the area watching me intently. If I moved, he moved. I even left the area, he moved away but showed up again where I was. I then went to the salesgirl and asked to check if they had a particular one, she then left to get it out of some far away place that took about 30 minutes. Meanwhile, the thug watched me and if I moved, he was there again. I finally, took my prescriptions out of my cart, went to another department, struck up a conversation so as to not alarm the sales women. In a discrete manner, I asked for them to call security, that a man has been stalking me in the store for the last 30 minutes and it has become unnerving. She called for security and seconds later, the stalker was within 3 yards of me again. Fortunately, I had worn my sunglasses to the store, so as I was intently watching him over the top of the glasses, he thought I was unaware of him. If I lifted my head up and looked in his direction, he would disappear for a moment behind a display.Finally a sales person arrived with my IPod. I told him what was going on and that security never showed up. I described the thug, took 3 pictures of him while pretending to text on my phone. The sales person saw him and got all upset. I told him to relax and just ring me up.
He rang up my scripts and IPod and I began to head for front exit by pharmacy. It occurred to me, that there may be some assistants with him. As I reached the front exit, a young man came walking very fast paced, texting someone, and headed to the back of the store. I had already asked the front store clerk to walk me to my car, he said certainly. I gave him the description of the thug and he was headed back in to get a manager.
Arrived home on orange red.
He either wanted the prescriptions or the electronics, or both.
Many lessons here. Most important one for me; having to give DL to pick up controlled substance. Anyone can watch from afar and know what you got. Makes you a huge target. Lesson learned.HUGE RED FLAG FOR THUGS TO TAKE PRESCRIPTIONS FROM YOUR CART OR GET YOU IN PARKING LOT.
• I was carrying my S&W M&P 9C in a belly band with extra mags and OC.
I owe my seeing the signs early to Tom Givens, Craig Douglas and William Aprill. Each one has taught me something that gave me the ability to see the signs early.
FIRST, he kept showing up close to me from out of nowhere
SECOND, overly friendly, trying to engage me to get my guard down
THIRD, he displayed a lot of grooming behavior, stroking chin, crossing arms, rubbing forehead, pacing, constantly texting as if communicating with a partner
FOURTH, he had on shorts, tank top, flip flops, it was quite cool in the store, but his shirt was soaked under his armpits
FIFTH, he was walking around with nothing in his hands to buy and never stayed at any display to look at something, just followed me and kept disappearing behind displays when he thought I noticed him
SIXTH, don’t count on anyone but yourself and what is physically on your body to handle the situation; I had already moved my purse to my left shoulder and had access to my OC
SEVEN, THERE WAS NO SECURITY THERE TODAY WHEN THIS HAPPENED, NOR DID A MANAGER COME TO MY AID
EIGHT, I knew there could be more than one person and not to go to my car alone
NINE, as leaving the store, I was watching for a accomplice, and wouldn’t you know, as I left, a young man entered the store walking very fast, headed in his direction texting–coincidence–maybe, maybe not
TEN, alertness and awareness are key. I had electricity going all through my body as this unfolded.
ELEVEN, don’t ignore what your body is telling you. Use that sixth sense.
TWELVE, be aware when you are picking up a script that must be signed for. I may as well been walking around with a sign on me that said, get your drugs here.
That’s all for now.
July 5 at 9:13pm • Unlike • 3
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Lynn Givens Thanks everyone. I post this for others to read and learn. I have had unusual life experiences, this is fourth time in being able to navigate through possible disaster. I hope my experiences will help others to do the same.
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Lynn Givens I think I am done.More lessons as I ponder today’s encounter
THIRTEEN, I used the plastic packaging of merchandise to see down the isle where he was avoiding being seen, but he could not see me. I was trying to keep distance between us.
FOURTEEN, I was making a plan of what I was going to do. It did include just leaving the store and giving my basket to the door greeter on the way out.
July 5 at 9:42pm • Like • 2
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FIFTEEN, ALWAYS PAY FOR SCRIPTS RIGHT AWAY. This way you can take your scripts and leave.
July 5 at 9:43pm • Like • 2
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Lynn Givens I think I am done.
Wow. A lot to digest.
In fact, because it’s a lot to digest, I recommend you come back and read this a few times. You just read it, come back tomorrow and read it again. Do the same again in the future. You will read, you will ponder, you will digest, and you’ll gain more from revisiting it (no, this isn’t about getting hits to my blog… save it off to your own records to read offline and carry with you, I don’t care — it’s about being able to really learn from this experience, because there’s a great deal in here to learn).
There are a few things I want to point out.
Point 7 – there was no security, and no one came to her aid. Your personal safety is your responsibility.
Points 6, 14 – she was planning, always planning. In fact, I’d say this includes Point 0: already having a gun and OC spray on her person — that was pre-planning. Heck, going even further, getting some training and acknowledging events like this can and will happen to you so you can be prepared and handle them when they unfold; pre-planning.
Be honest. If this happened to you, how would you have taken it? If some guy was being so nice to you, would it have set off any alarm bells? And even if it did, would you have acted on them? or tried to shrug them off (a lot of people do this; see Lynn’s Point 11).
Going back to Point 14, notice Lynn’s willingness to leave everything. So you don’t get your medicine, and it’s going to be a huge hassle to get it again (it’s a controlled substance, going to probably be difficult to get it “reissued”). Whatever. Totally willing to abandon all her shopping, her basket full of stuff, whatever, because her personal safety is more important.
Points… well, just about every other point. The common thread here is awareness. She paid attention and was constantly vigilant. She used tricks to keep an eye on him (Point 13). She observed out of place behavior (Points 2, 3, 4, 5). She made a fair assumption there would be more than 1 thug (Points 3, 8, 9).
But here’s the bigger point that stands out.
None of this was solved with a gun, or OC spray, or any other sort of weapon or “hard skill”.
It was all solved by being alert, aware, and having prior acknowledgement that bad things can happen to you so you must be prepared ahead of time to handle them. Lynn gives credit to Tom Givens, Craig Douglas (SouthNarc), and William Aprill for giving her the skills she needed to get through that encounter. Yes it was good she had her gun, yes it was good she had OC spray (and it seems she was looking to use the OC as her first line of defense, see Point 6). But the key thing that kept her safe was being able to manage these unknown contacts.
It’s great you want to get your concealed handgun license, but I see so many people that think once they get that, they’re done and good. No, a concealed handgun license is merely your entry ticket into a larger world of personal protection. It’s the minimum entry fee, folks. Yes, you should work on hard skills to become proficient with it, but it’s more important to get these “soft skills”. You should seek out both types of instruction and training.
It’s great you want to carry pepper spray. But have you ever used it? Some people think that buying the canister and putting it on their keychain is done and good to go. But is it really? Are you really able to handle yourself? Will you be able to catch the cues and avoid the situation entirely (the best defense, the art of fighting without fighting… whatever you want to call it), or will it all happen “out of nowhere” and be over before your mind can unfreeze itself and you begin to react?
There’s much to learn from Lynn’s experience, and I’d like to express my gratitude to her for sharing. There’s much to learn here, but you have to swallow your pride and be honest with yourself — your life is worth it.
A few years ago, Karl Rehn adapted the KR Training Defensive Pistol Skills course for “small guns”, dubbing it Defensive Pistol Skills: Back Up Gun (BUG). It serves a couple purposes.
First, for those people that opt to carry a small gun on a regular or semi-regular basis. Maybe you prefer that Glock 26, snub-revolver, M&P Shield, Kahr, or other such small gun. Maybe this is what you carry all the time, or maybe it’s what you carry in the summer because you wear less clothing and it’s easier to conceal a small gun. Or maybe it’s an infrequent thing, like you just slip a snub into your pocket when you run down to the corner store. Either way, smaller guns are harder to shoot – they really are an “advanced/expert” gun, not a beginner gun. Being able to learn some practical skills and techniques for using that small gun is quite useful.
Second, for those people that carry a small gun as a back-up to their primary gun (hence the “BUG” acronym). Carrying two guns isn’t paranoia, it’s preparation, it’s acknowledgment that mechanical objects can and will fail (probably when you least want them to). It’s a way to quickly arm an unarmed other person. There’s utility in having a BUG, and utility in knowing how to transition to it and skillfully use it.
One of the masters of the snub revolver, Claude Werner recently posted an article on the different modes of carrying a snub revolver. The snub gives different options than a traditional full-sized service pistol, and Claude enumerates options and the pros and cons of each.
He talks about:
Of course, there are other modes of carry, but those are the ones he covers.
For me, I admit it varies depending upon circumstance.
I never do ankle. I wear shorts in the summer, and often when I wear long pants I have footwear that covers my ankles (e.g. boots). I know some that use this method, and it’s especially useful for folks that have to sit all day (especially in a vehicle).
I’ve never done a proper shoulder holster. One time on a long road trip I did wear my snub inside the inner shirt pocket of a 5.11 concealment shirt; it was my secondary, because it’d be faster to get to from a seated position. But I didn’t like that too much because it was imbalanced, and made the shirt ride abnormally — the fabric didn’t move like a normal shirt would, the shirt hung awkwardly off me. It was OK for the ride, but I’m unlikely to do that again. But a proper shoulder rig I’m not against, if I can conceal it properly (but I rarely wear coats… it’s Texas, and it’s hot).
Never done a belly band, but I do own a SmartCarry. Tried it for a while, will use it on the rare occasion when it’s the best/right option, but honestly? It makes going to the bathroom a cumbersome event, so I save using it for when there’s no other option.
OWB is fine, if you can support it. I’ve got a C-Rusty Sherrick U.S. High Ride, which is perfect for the application. I like the high ride and the fact nothing descends below the belt. Thus, you could wear OWB with just a shirt and have no concealment problems, or at least, it’s the same problems you’d have with IWB, without the IWB annoyances.
IWB for me tends to be with my Kolbeson Leatherworks leather AIWB. Honestly, I can’t remember the model name (and Josh doesn’t make them any more), but it was designed specifically for snubs and AIWB carry, with a reverse 5º cant, which makes a big difference in ride and draw (vs. say no cant). I prefer this method for my snub, but AIWB doesn’t work so well for me when I’ve got a gut going. See all my postings about weight lifting. 😉
The DeSantis ClipGrip is what I’ve had on my snub for a few years now, and it’s my preferred grip. I’ve been trying other things, but it just hasn’t worked out. What set me down this road was Claude’s combination of Barami & Tyler grips, but they just didn’t work for me. The DeSantis has worked quite well. I don’t use the cip portion much any more, but it’s there and an option.
Most often, when I carry the snub, it’s in a pocket. It’s a matter of my body these days, enough stuff on my belt, and so it works. But it does really suck on the draw.
Anyways, that’s my experience. Read Claude’s article for a good discussion on the pros and cons of each method. There is no one perfect method, as you can see. It’s all trade-offs and sometimes you have to go with what the situation dictates. While I grant the importance of consistency, of “same way every time”, well… as Hogel likes to say, “you can’t play golf with only one club in the bag”. 🙂
Okay bad news here folks. More than guns, the media causes mass shootings.
From a pure numbers standpoint, mass shootings are statistically meaningless. If you look at the FBI Uniform Crime Report there were 12,765 non-negligent homicides (manslaughters/murders, non-LEOs and accidental). Of them ALL kinds of firearms were used in 8,855.
Now if you want to bump the numbers to scare people about guns you add in suicides. Ohhh big scary of the 38,364 suicides in 2012, 19,000 plus were done by firearms.
http://www.cdc.gov/violencepr…/pdf/Suicide_DataSheet-a.pdfNow, depending on who you ask CDC or other sources, there are between 487,000 suicide attempts (self-inflicted injuries) yet the same source implies there are 959,100 attempts. Another source I read says hospitals treat over 2,000,000 suicide attempts a year. I give you these numbers because whether you vote for 487,000, 959,100 or two million suicide attempts you really have to dig in the CDC numbers to find that in the same year there were only 169 suicide attempts with guns. So it’s pretty obvious that people who are serious about ending their lives use guns. Oddly enough, statistically the most reliable way to kill yourself is by jumping in front of a train, which has a 0% survival rate. Thing is if someone is that dedicated to taking their life, they’re going to find a way, guns or no. So adding in suicides to bump number of ‘gun deaths’ is a red herring.
Okay so back to homicides. Here’s the booger depending on the locale, the numbers of those killed have criminal records upwards to 90%. Allowing for ‘known’ perpetrators the average again comes out to about 95% having criminal records. In short, an overwhelming number of shootings are between those involved in the drug trade or gangs. This especially in the big cities — where most homicides happen. The only way to hide these numbers (and arguably this inconvenient truth) is to include Wyoming and Kansas rednecks shooting each other over messing with their wives. That statistically reduces the professional criminal element common to most homicides.
Now not to sound callous, but innocent people who are gunned down in ‘mass shootings’ seldom top 50 of the yearly homicide rate (12,756 in 2012). But they do make for great media coverage and fear.
Now, growing in Los Angeles in the 1970s, the first time I was involved in a drive by attempt was around 1974 (I was on my way to buy comic books). The shooter missed and I went along my way. I had several classmates who were shot or shot at in this manner. The key point is these incidents were never reported by the media. It was considered criminals trying to kill criminals
In the ’80s and early ’90s the media started covering drive bys. And they increased. To the point that homicides reached an all time high in the US. Gang members would rush home to see how many stations covered their drive bys. The publicity translated into fame.And gang related drive bys went wild.
That’s also an issue when it comes to spree shooters. Although statistically meaningless in how many bodies they produce, the media coverage inspires people looking for fame.
Champion Sport Shooter and local Texan BJ Norris has a website called MyGunTips.com.
It’s a growing collection of informational videos about shooting sports, self-defense, and other firearms-related topics.
As an example, here’s BJ explaining strategies for shooting the Steel Challenge stage “Roundabout”
And you thought it was just making 5 plates go “ping” as fast as possible. 😉
Jane M. Orient, M.D. writes for the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons Volume 18 Number 3 Fall 2013 on the notion of “gun violence” as a public health issue. (h/t Greg Howard)
Full article available here. 6 pages, 51 citations. Not a long read, but one chock-full of data.
In a 2005 report commissioned by [National Institute of Justice, a U.S. Department of Justice agency], researchers examined a variety of sexual assaults and other physical assaults against women. The study did not focus specifically on college students. The researchers found that potential rape victims who resisted their attackers physically and verbally significantly reduced the probability that a rape would be completed and did not significantly increase the risk of serious injury.
Most self-protective actions significantly reduce the risk that a rape will be completed. In particular, certain actions reduce the risk of rape more than 80 percent compared to nonresistance. The most effective actions, according to victims, are attacking or struggling against their attacker, running away, and verbally warning the attacker.
In assaults against women, most self-protective tactics reduced the risk of injury compared to nonresistance. According to the researchers, the only self-protective tactics that appear to increase the risk of injury significantly were those that are ambiguous and not forceful. These included stalling, cooperating and screaming from pain or fear.
A separate study found that even when a rape was completed, women who used some form of resistance had better mental health outcomes than those who did not resist.
From a 2005 report, that Certain Self-Defense Actions Can Decrease Risk. (h/t Michael Z. Williamson)
So sure. It’s important to teach people not to commit crimes; to not violate the property, rights, and dignity of others. It’s also important to realize that while civilized society has worked towards this end for thousands of years, there are still those who chose to deviate and not do what you or society-at-large desires and deems appropriate and acceptable. We haven’t yet been able to eliminate from society bad people doing bad things.
Given these bad people still exist and likely will continue to exist for some time (if thousands of years of history are any indication), it’s prudent you take additional steps towards your own self-protection and self-preservation.
And yes, if the above report is any fair indication (along with thousands of years of recorded history), sometimes violence is the most effective solution.
Remember, violence isn’t bad, it just is what it is. While often violence is used – and most often reported – in a negative manner, certainly violence can be and is used in a positive manner. Do not overlook the fact that a woman fighting back against her rapist, that she is using violence as a tool to preserve her dignity and life. And apparently, a violent response is demonstrated to be the most effective means of avoiding assault, sexual assault, and rape.
I read about the Ergo Delta Grip in a recent issue of American Rifleman magazine. I thought it was interesting — a “better” grip for a J-frame (S&W snub-nose) revolver, that takes away some of the pain of shooting, helps bring about a natural point of aim, and is dolphin safe (ok, I made up that last one). Sounds interesting enough to check out.
Here’s the copy from their website:
The Delta Grip™ is the first truly ergonomic grip for J Frame revolvers. Designed for the most important part of the gun, the shooter, the Delta Grip was engineered to fit the natural point of aim and mechanics of the human hand, wrist and arm. The result is a grip with a superior natural point of aim, comfort and control. Fits round butt J-Frames. Will not fit on Smith and Wesson Bodyguard 38 Model (sku 103037 and 103038).
I ordered it from MidwayUSA. It was backordered, but eventually came in. Note: paid for this with my own money, this is my own assessment.
I put it on my S&W 442 and did some initial dry fire work with it.
It’s big. It really fills the hand. This is good. It has a lot more surface area, covers the backstrap, and yes you now have a place to fit your support hand! More surface area of the grip allows for more hand/palm on the grip/grun, and thus better control. This is all good.
That said, it is kinda big. For someone with small hands, I don’t think this is going to work all that well. Gun fit is very important, especially when it comes to a revolver having a long and heavy trigger press. The Delta Grip does make things larger, makes for a longer length of pull, and thus it just won’t work for smaller-handed folks.
However, it’s not so big as to change the concealment profile. Sure, it changes it some because it is larger. But I found in all the places that it matters, it didn’t change all that much compared to say the “boot grips“. But the thing is, the profile does change enough that it could matter. For example, pocket carry is going to be a little more difficult. There’s just more grip, it will fill the pocket a bit more, and it’s going to require a different bit of mechanics and thus pocket “room” to get your fingers around and get a good grip on the gun. Also, the surface is “rubber”; not sure what it’s actually made out of, but it’s a “rubbery-like” texture, that certainly grabs things. While that’s good for your grip, it’s not good for clothing — will drag someone on the pocket draw (unless you can get your hand all the way covering it, see above), and in a holster on your body clothing can “stick” and drag a little bit on it which could affect your concealment. I didn’t try on the ankle (don’t have such a holster as I never carry that way), but again depending upon your clothing it may be just big enough to cause an issue.
These are the trade-offs, folks.
Another thing I worked on dry was drawing. Now, pocket carry is almost out of the question for me any more, because my pants fit quite differently now due to squatting and deadlifting. So I did some holster work, both from 3 o’clock and appendix. I guess this is a grip you’re going to have to get used to. I’m not really sure how to describe it best, but like with a regular gun, there’s a feel, there’s index points when you go to draw… when your hand comes down on the gun, it’s able to do things like slide up under the beavertail and then you know you’re in place and can draw. Here, no such tactile feedback. Even with boot grips on there isn’t anything like a beavertail to index against, but you can still index into the right place into your hand due to how things are shaped. Not so with the Delta Grip. It just felt really awkward to me. But that said, I almost never had a bad grip on the draw. It just FELT really strange to me. As I said, this is initial impressions, so this may be just one of those things I’d have to get used to. All in all it wasn’t a problem to draw, just weird. Caleb @ GunNuts did a review of the Delta Grip and he mentioned how it hurt when his hand was too high and touching metal instead of fully behind the grip. It’s easy to get into that position on the draw, so take that for whatever it’s worth. Frankly, I think this is just one you gotta practice with to learn it.
As for the issue of “natural pointing”, it lived up to that. It’s just slightly different enough (vs. traditional angles you get out of a J-frame) and it’s pretty nice to just point and click.
Using the same S&W 442, I did some “side by side” comparisons. Alas, I didn’t have 2 revolvers, so I just would put one set of grips on, shoot, switch grips, shoot the same, see how things felt.
I used two types of ammo.
The two grips were:
The DeSantis Clip Grip has been on my 442 for a couple years now and has been my preferred grip. I’ve gone through lots of different grips on my snub, and so far the DeSantis Clip Grip has been my favorite. Yeah, good old Boot Grips are tough to beat too… but the Clip Grip is that plus the clip so….
First, some eye candy.
S&W 442 with DeSantis Clip Grip
That’s my 442 with the Clip Grip.
Here’s the same with the Delta Grip
S&W 442 with Ergo Delta Grip
So you can see what I mean by “bigger”. There’s just a lot more side surface area, which is great for filling the hand and giving you somewhere to put your support hand. But it may not work out for folks with smaller hands.
How did it shoot?
It was… interesting.
One big reason I got it was hoping for something that would help mitigate some of the felt recoil. And the Delta Grip? It does… but it doesn’t.
First, it certainly does reduce the overall felt recoil. There’s just more rubber there, especially over the backstrap. It’s going to absorb energy before your hand gets to feel it. This was evident with both the plinking loads and the Gold Dots.
But yet… it doesn’t. Look at these backstrap pictures
Backstrap of S&W 442 with Ergo Delta Grip
Backstrap of S&W 442 with DeSantis Clip Grip
Top is the Delta, bottom is the Clip.
Look at the contour of the backstrap. Notice the Delta Grip is a bit more pointed? That’s a nice focused area of force transmission. Think of it like walking in snow: your bodyweight (the force) doesn’t change – focus all your weight in a tiny area (your foot) and you fall through the snow, but spread that weight out over a larger area (snowshoes) and you can walk on the snow.
That pointed backstrap drove the grip into the palm of my hand pretty forcefully. So while yes I could tell overall the felt recoil was reduced, what was transmitted was more focused in certain areas. So it’s weird that yes it was less recoil, but in some ways it hurt more than the bare-backed Clip Grips!
Didn’t really like that.
I am pretty sure that if I shot a few hundred rounds of +P through my snub, I’d be happier with the Delta Grip than the Clip Grip. But I know I’d still walk away sore. Long ago I had used some Pachmayr Compac grips on my snub and they were great at mitigating the pain, but they were just too bulky for practical use.
Pointing was fine. Shooting was fine. My issues of grip and drawing remained, but again I reckon this just needs practice and getting used to it. I did appreciate the extra room for my support hand, but after all this time of shooting the snub I’m so used to it that it doesn’t really matter.
The Ergo Delta Grip has a lot of potential. I think it can serve a good niche because it doesn’t add too terribly to the profile of the gun, and strives to address grip issues that are just part of having a snub. So there’s a lot of good here.
But I just can’t use them. That “pointed” backstrap is just too much. If they refine the grip with a more rounded backstrap, I betcha this will be really awesome. But doing so, I’m not sure how that will affect other aspects of the grip and thus if it’s really possible. I’ll leave that up to Ergo’s design and engineering team.
I do want other people to shoot it and see what their impressions are. It may be a personal thing: my hands vs. your hands.
For now, I’m going back to my DeSantis Clip Grip. It works best for me. I can grip it reliably. I can shoot well. It’s very low-profile no matter how I carry it. And yes, the clip is just such a handy feature from time to time.
Updated: Tom Hogel, another KR Training instructor, had this to say about them after I lent them to him:
“Poked” me holster carry and difficult to get a grip on from a pocket holster. Don’t see any real advantage over gripping the crap out of my current rubberized grips.
Another KRT instructor has them now. Awaiting his feedback.
I’m finding more reviews of the Delta Grip online, and it’s starting to seem that people find them interesting and find similar strengths like more grip area (more length for the pinky, more slab for the support hand), similar weirdness (it’s just different, you have to get used to it and practice a lot with it), and similar downsides (the pain from the more focused recoil; doesn’t really work for pocket carry). Who knows… maybe it will inspire Ergo to tweak the design and come out with a version 2.0.
The KR Training June 2014 Newsletter is up.
There’s been some schedule changes for the summer classes, to address student demand. My favorite is the DPS-BUG class, because we all know you start carrying small guns in the summer (hot, less clothing), so hey — you might as well ensure you can shoot well with it.
The schedule is also getting fleshed out for the remainder of 2014, including the Suburban Dad Survivalist Field Day in August, which will include Dynamic First Aid from Lone Star Medics.
See you at the range!
Stuff From Hsoi 