Walked into the gym feeling fine. I gave myself permission to jack-shit it today, but figured if I felt good enough I would do the deficits because I actually like them and feel they are paying off. Today’s effort was validation.
I was only supposed to work up to 355. My 3rd rep started to break form, but I wanted a 4th so I went for it tho the form wasn’t hot. I wanted to do more and on a whim opted to try Joker Sets. I hadn’t given it a thought prior to that moment, but went for it.
In short, Joker Sets are doing your normal workup, including still pushing for reps on the last set. Then, you add 5-10% and keep going with the reps for that week (e.g. 5 reps on the 5 week, singles on 5/3/1 week, etc.). Add another 5-10%, and just keep going until you can’t make the reps, tho you need to stop just short of failure. There’s a little more to it than that, but that’s the gist. Wendler covers it in his “Beyond 5/3/1” book.
I opted for 20# jumps because that was about right, and easy enough to just throw a dime on each side of the bar and keep going for singles. 375 wasn’t too bad. My PR at the time was 380×3, so going to 395 felt good. Screw it… that close to 4 wheels? Let’s go for it.
Pulled it. And it was awesome. 🙂
I took a video and compared it to how I felt during the lift. No, the form was not textbook pretty. It’s not the form I’ve been focusing on to help bring up my weak points. But the form really wasn’t all that bad and would be a “good lift”. I can say without a doubt that I would not have done this before my reset. My form them was so bad this would have been a struggle and I am not sure I would have broken the floor. But all the work I’ve been doing for stricter form, keeping the back proper and making it more of a push with the legs than a pull with the back, the deficit deadlifts, and probably even the pause squats and ensuring I break depth on squats… I think it all added up and paid off.
So, hell yeah! 🙂
I actually realized I went from 395 to 405, when the jump should have been to 415, but I was really focused on the 4 wheels and felt that was good enough. I’d rather make 405 than miss 415 anyways.
I’m thrilled! I’m still floating on the high from the success.
That said, I am not going to adjust my weights to use 405 as my max and recalc my numbers. I know I got here because of the focus on form, so I’ll stick with the sub-max work and stricter form to bring things up. There’s no question that paid off, and frankly that’s more important to me than a 1RM. But, I’ll still be happy with the lifetime PR!
I had a conversation today with a police officer friend of mine who recently had a sticky situation. It emphasized to me that things are often not what they seem and that our firearms are used much more often for threat management than for shooting.
Popo – I’m rolling on domestic call. I stop the car and it’s active, they’re knocking the shit out of each other. Male half gets out if the car screaming ‘she’s got a gun,’ he runs off. I pull my Beretta 92, start moving around so I can see her more clearly. It’s 0200, dimly lit area.
I see her in the passenger seat, hunched over, moving her right arm in a way that looks like someone running the slide on a pistol. I bring 92 the up, flip the decocker/safety off, start pressing the trigger with the front sight centered on her ear. I’m yelling at her to put her hands up.
The hammer is starting to move back when she sits back, puts her hands up and they’re covered in blood. She was sawing a hole in her wrist with the tip of a nail file.
I really think the safety plus a long trigger pull saved me from shooting her. I was positive she was trying to charge a pistol. I would have been screwed; bad shoot all day. Especially in this political environment.
CW – Did she have a gun at all? Do you think he was trying to get you to shoot her?
Popo – She never had a gun, I think he was trying to get me to kill her. She was transported to the ER for a psych evaluation due to her statements and cutting herself.
CW – That’s what it sounds like to me. “Homicide by cop.”
Popo – Yeah, I’ve been in a lot of close ones but that one made me lose sleep over what would have come next.
CW – What was the outcome with him?
Popo – he went (in) for felony domestic battery (due to her being pregnant). He also had warrants and cocaine in his pockets.
I’m more concerned with private citizen self-defense than police action, and the two do operate under different constraints and circumstances.
But what I primarily take from this is that the scene may not always be what you think it is.
I know a lot of people who consider themselves to be sheepdogs. So many people want to get involved, to be the hero. I hear this in conversations, I see it posted online all the time. I don’t fault people for having this attitude, and frankly I wish more people did have it because it shows a love and care for one’s fellow man. A willingness to be involved, to help others, to protect others. This is a good thing.
Alas, when shit’s unfolding, our heart is pounding, our mind is racing, and everything is zooming past… can we adequately assess a situation?
A common scenario I like to throw out is that you roll up to the local stop-and-rob, and as you step up to the doors someone runs out followed immediately by a second person. This second person points towards the first, yells something like “he just robbed the place!” then runs off in the opposite direction.
What do you do? What is your assessment of the situation?
And does it occur to you first guy might be totally innocent guy trying to distance himself from the situation, and it was really second guy that robbed the place and was merely distracting you so he could get away?
Or, maybe the first guy was the robber.
How can you know for sure?
What if you were in a park and saw someone mounted atop another, giving him the old ground and pound? Should you stop the guy on top? What if I told you he was a father that just stopped his child’s (attempted) abductor, and he was dishing out a little fatherly justice? Would you stop him now?
I’m not saying what you should or shouldn’t do in these particular situations, merely trying to point out that your first impression may be a wrong impression. Or it may be a correct one. You cannot know, and you cannot get involved unless you do know, else you open yourself up for a lot of risk and liability.
Yes, we can get back to premises such as beer & tv or merely “is it worth dying for?”. Is getting involved in someone else’s problems going to lead to good things or bad things, and you really need to consider the complete and mundane impacts it will have upon your life (every day for its remainder). And unfortunately taking such attitudes tends to run counter to a hero mindset, because now you are being selfish and choosing to not get involved. But is this really a bad thing? or is it about finding a balance between getting involved when you know you should, and staying out when you know you shouldn’t.
Had a Basic Pistol 2 and Defensive Long Gun: Essentials class this past Saturday. Classes were mostly full, some no-shows for some reason. And we were down one assistant instructor due to sudden illness. But apart from the oppressive heat, everything went pretty well.
Basic Pistol 2 was like most, with students getting used to the notion of shooting “faster”. But it’s not just actually going faster, but learning to be more efficient and simultaneous in our actions (see here). It’s a paradigm shift for sure, but an important one.
Another fun thing that came up was grip. And in short, grip harder. Whatever you’re doing with your grip, grip harder. And yes, it will be a workout, and yes you will get tired. Still, grip harder. Get stronger, build the endurance. It will only help. And those grippers? Captains of Crush.
This was the first DLG-E I helped with. I’ve been wanting to be a part of that class for some time, but schedule just hasn’t worked out. I like working with the shotgun folk because they don’t get a lot of love. 🙂 Plus, I like bringing out my “grandpa gun” — all those black guns, and there’s my wood-stocked gun. 🙂 A few reminders for folks there.
First, for everyone, if you can make your stock shorter, try that. We get comfortable with longer stocks and a shorter stock thus a shorter length-of-pull feels weird. And yes, too short and you might end up kissing the gun. But try just going a notch or two shorter and see what it does for you. The issue here is going from something like the high ready to shouldering the gun. If you have to push the gun out then pull it back into your shoulder, that’s wasted movement, that’s inefficient. You should be able to hold the gun in the high-ready position, then just snap it up into your shoulder. A short stock helps with that. So if your stock is adjustable, try shortening it and see what that does for you. Go as short as you can and find how short you can get it before it becomes a problem (e.g. you end up kissing the gun). Plus, a shorter overall gun length helps maneuverability, manipulations, etc., which can matter more inside a building (house) than outside where walls don’t get in your way.
This is one reason I like my wood-stock shotgun: was able to saw and size it precisely to fit me. I’ve bought the synthetic shorter stocks, and they are still either too long or too short.
Second, for pump-shotgun folks, remember that the firing sequence is the “Tom Givens Waltz”: boom-chunk-chunk. You fire, then you must rack it, and THEN you are done with that shot and ready for the next. It’s not boom… and now wait, then chunk-chunk and boom. Be ready to go.
So on that note, third, when reloading, keep the gun loaded and ready to go. If there isn’t one in the chamber, getting one in the chamber is your first order of business. Then keep the gun in a firing position (e.g. holding/supporting with your firing hand), and feed the magazine from there. The point is, in a gunfight you don’t really have control over when you will need to “go”, so you need to keep the gun running and ready as much as possible. If nothing is in the chamber, you’re behind the curve. Get something in there first and be ready, because then you’ve at least got 1. Then if you keep the gun in a ready “firing” position, it’s not as much of a fumble and fiddle to get back into the fight, even if the gun gets only partially reloaded. You just have to remember we’re working with a limited-capacity firearm and one that’s slower to reload (vs. something magazine fed), so it’s important to keep it fed and running at all times.
Classes overall ran well. Good group of students. Only downside was the oppressive heat. Such is Texas in the middle of August. 🙂
Assistance – Band-assist pull-ups (superset with all pressing)
12 x 3 (8 on last set) x bw
Assistance – Seated cable rows
3 x 15 x 70
Today just felt awesome. Well, it didn’t start out that way. Drag-ass out of bed, and the first few sets felt really heavy. As I went along, something in my right wrist didn’t feel good, so I decided I would wrap my wrists for the last set. And when I hit that last set, cranked down the belt, wrapped the wrists tight, hit some ammonia (still experimenting with it), and cranked out 6 easily. I should have stopped there, but something just said to do more so I did. Yeah my butt lost contact with the bench, and rep 8 had to work for the lock-out, but I just felt like really going for it. Looking back over my logs, that ties a rep record @ 205, so that’s cool. I mean, last cycle I did 6 @ 200, so 8 at 205 was really cool. I just felt really awesome.
And it shows as I moved into assistance work, because usually cranking that hard during the work sets and my assistance work can’t crank so hard, but look… I hit the inclines fine and even AMRAP’d it on the last set. Only 12 but still. I also superset band-assisted pull-ups with every pressing set with AMRAP on the last set. I really am liking this and my shoulders are ok with it, so I’ll slowly increase this next cycle (4 reps per set, at least).
Last thing was seated cable rows. I’m searching for what to do for superset with my pressing sets. Sure, face pulls, but I want something a little heavier, more substantial, but also not something that will detract from the main lift. Rows make sense, but full on rows felt like it’d risk detracting. I thought why not, try the seated (cable) rows. I figured it wouldn’t hurt, but I didn’t realize how good it would be! The pull at the bottom actually did a nice number on my upper back and shoulder area, in terms of stretching and popping some stuff in my spine (in a good way). The squeeze, the constant tension, really pinching the shoulder blades together, yeah, I think this might work out better than expected. I’m sure I’ll drop the weight down around 50 and drop the reps to 10 max and see how it goes. But preliminary assessment is it’s worth a shot.
I like the refined approach I’m taking to my lifting.
I don’t know why things were so awesome today. Might be the diet change. I’m not strictly following CBL any more, but keeping the basic idea of no carbs for the most part, a refeed the night prior to a training session, but allowing myself to more freely eat carbs over the weekends. I am thinking the fuel is helping. Makes sense. If it means it makes my fat loss slower, but becomes a more solid eating program that I can stick with without much effort, then I’ll go with it.
As for the ammonia, I’m still playing with it. It’s interesting. I cannot shove it up my nose and inhale deeply like I see the pros do… but I get a fair shot of it. I think what’s changing for me is not feeling like I have to inhale then get into the lift “before it wears off”. No, let it wear off. Don’t rush into it. Inhale it, let it clear the mind, get the focus, but just let it be and get into the lift as normal. It’s interesting stuff for sure.
When I write up the Sunday Metal posts, frequently I choose themes or take inspiration from somewhere. For a while I’ve thought about having some guest postings, and that starts now.
The next some posts will be from my close friend, W. He’s flown the flag of metal for many years, including being a metal radio DJ around the same time I was (tho we didn’t meet until after). We’ve been friends for many years, been to numerous shows together, and share a love of the music. So I figured he’d make a good first guest to Sunday Metal. So with that, onwards!
A few months ago, I snagged the 4-song EP from Jason Newsted’s new band on iTunes and I have to say I’m pleasantly surprised. Here, the soul of MetallicA lives on in Newsted’s heavy, Heavy, HEAVY metal. The four songs on the record are all awesome, and very different from each other, so it’s hard to pick one to showcase here.
I picked “King Of The Underdogs” because it is almost viral in its ability to stick in my head, and I hope it latches on to you as well. Also, the strong reference to Henry Mancini’s “Shot In The Dark” at the end is just awesome.
Newsted’s full-length album came out August 6th, but don’t forget to get the two songs from the EP that aren’t on the album.
One day at the gym I saw this catalog atop the pile of magazines:
Apparently what matters most are pecs, abs, and boobs.
It reminded me of that Simpsons episode where Homer finds the overturned sugar truck and is sleeping in front of the sugar mound:
All I could hear in my head was “first you buy their supplements, then you get the abs, then you get the women”. 🙂
Flipping through the catalog, it was the same old thing of overhyped promises: promises to get h00g3, ripped, be better (and more legal!) than anabolics and other PED’s, and of other enhancement — if you just buy and take our expensive product. Oh yeah… and when you take our product, you’ll get the body you want, and the woman it belongs to (thank you Paul Stanley).
Of course, few of these products are proven to work; heck, even the bro-science is often weak. And when you have places like examine.com to give you the straight story well… you do realize how much of this stuff is just parting foolish you with your money.
But still… we dream. And still we throw our money away.
Yes, if there can be a short-cut that is proven to work, we will take it. Why? Because we are human. We want to bigger, better, faster, more, and we want it now. We also find it difficult to be patient. We also find it difficult to accept that this is going to take time… a lot of time. So if we can find a way to still get to the same place but do so in a faster or more effective or more direct manner, we’re going to do it. It doesn’t matter if it’s winning the Tour de France or just choosing to go straight down the street instead of around the block when driving — we’re going to do what it takes to accomplish things in the most expedient manner.
I have lifted weights on and off since I was a teenager. I never stuck with it, and looking back I can see why: I either got bored, or I didn’t see the results I wanted (bigger/stronger, and sooner rather than later). I think that’s why I’ve stuck with now for the past 2+ years: I’m far from bored, and I see awesome results.
But still, I think to myself… gee, over 2 years at this, and I’ve only come this far? I thought I’d be further!
Furthermore, when I think about where I want to be in terms of my strength levels and body appearance, I think it might take me another 3 years. The strength gains will not come like they did the first few months on Starting Strength. In fact, a simple calculation like on Wendler of having 4-week cycles thus 13 cycles per year, and if you go up 10# per cycle on squat/deadlift, that means you should gain 130# per year, right? No, if you get 50# you’re doing great, because you’ll go maybe 6-7 cycles, then reset, then another 6-7 and reset, and those resets take a large chunk out of your numbers, so looking year to year and it may only be a 50# increase. If you’re lucky.
Is that so bad? If I’m honest with myself, no it’s not. In fact, it’s quite realistic. It’s actually the way it is… just that no one tells you it’s going to take this long. Thankfully, that’s starting to change.
If he’s right that Andy Bolton started with a 600# deadlift and it took him 20 years before he pulled 1000#, that averages out to like 20# a year. I’m sure that wasn’t Andy’s actual increase, but it gives you some perspective. So next time you get mad because your lift isn’t going anywhere, you have to step back and really see if it’s not going anywhere or if it’s just going really slow.
Or just look at Paul’s own story. Two years before he could bench 135. But now he can close-grip 445. But it’s been 20+ years to get there. If anything, it makes me wish I was back as a teenager and knew then what I know now, so I could have stuck with it. I’m way behind the curve.
But, Paul teaches another thing:
It took me more than two decades of struggle to climb to those numbers. Regardless of how they compare to anyone else’s, they are mine, and I’m proud of them. I put in a lot of time and effort to reach them. I do not apologize for not “measuring up” to what someone else can do. The only person I need to measure up to each day, and get better than, is the competition I see in the mirror. That guy needs to be better today, than he was yesterday. And tomorrow, he needs to be a little bit better than he was today.
He’s quite right. It doesn’t really matter if your numbers aren’t killer next to someone else. Sure, to compare your numbers to charts/standards or to what a federation establishes for “raw elite” or just to someone else’s numbers… it is useful to a degree because it gives you some perspective about what’s achievable, what’s realistic, etc.. But in the end, it’s more about you improving yourself. I’ve found myself doing that too, telling people my numbers and minimizing them because I know compared to the big boys, my numbers are nothing. But I have to remember they’ve been doing this for 20 years, and I’ve been doing it for 2.
Those readers who have been engaged in serious bodybuilding for more than a year probably have realized that the growth of muscle tissue beyond normal levels is a relatively slow process. And while I have never seen the results of studies that might reveal exactly how many pounds the average bodybuilder gains in the course of one year of hard training, I think that most experienced bodybuilders would agree that a five-pound gain of pure muscle tissue – as opposed to give pounds of body weight, despite its composition – would be considered a considerable achievement.
Think about that. You read the bodybuilding magazines and are bombarded with how with this product or that technique you’ll put on 20# in 20 weeks, and get 20″ biceps in a matter of minutes. And here’s Mike Mentzer, one of the best bodybuilders ever, and he says if you can gain 5# in a year, that’s a “considerable achievement”. That implies in normal course you will probably gain less than 5# in a year! But then, Mike continues and puts it into perspective.
Five pounds of muscle tissue may not sound very impressive, but if a bodybuilder were able to sustain that rate of growth (5 pounds of pure muscle tissue per year) for five years, he would, at the end of that period, end up some 25 pounds heavier. If you could envision that much beefsteak laid out in front of you on the dinner table, you would then get some idea as to just how much “meat” 25 pounds of muscle is – enough to transform the average American male weighing 155 pounds into a veritable Hercules at 180 pounds of solid, cut-up muscle. It should also be remembered that of that average American male’s 155 pounds of body weight, the muscle weight component is roughly 20 pounds (the remainder being bone, water, fat, and waste materials). Given this fact, his muscle weight gain of 25 pound over five years would represent a transformation that would more than double his existing muscle mass!
Is 5 years that much to ask?
Well, yes it is. But what do you want?
I’ve been around now for long enough. I’ve done enough things that take time: 4 years of high school; 4 years of undergrad, 2 years of grad school, 4+ years to get a black belt. And yeah, you come to realize that you just have to put in that level of time before you can really understand. To ask 4-5 years of work under the bar really seems a minimum to not only get the strength levels or physique or whatever that you want, but also to have enough experience to know what you’re doing, to know what to keep doing, and to get somewhere satisfactory.
So really no, 5 years isn’t much to ask.
But that doesn’t mean we won’t get impatient. That doesn’t mean it won’t be easy. That doesn’t mean we won’t long for something “more”.
But I think about it. I can see if I stick to a good long-term diet strategy, I’ll be able to look in the mirror and see precisely what I want to see.
If say I can gain 50#/year on my deadlift and squat and 25# on my bench and press (as rough numbers), then 3 years from now that’s 150 and 75… and that will mean things like squatting in the mid-400’s, pulling low 500’s, benching maybe 3 wheels and pressing maybe 2. Hell, that’s damn respectable.
Yes I’d love to have those numbers now, but that means I should have started 5 years ago. There’s just no getting around having to put in the time.
Really, there aren’t any shortcuts here. No product in a catalog will get me the body I want (and thankfully I already have the woman). And I just can’t get around the limits of human reality – 5#/year might be all I pack on.
I just have to wait.
No, it’s not easy to accept (yet again), but it’s refreshing. It frees you from burden. It lifts off pressure. It helps you see clearer so you can know what’s useful and what’s useless towards helping you get there. Accepting the reality that it’s going to take time, that’s OK, because so far the journey’s been a good one, and I look forward to the road ahead.
I went in with a “jack shit” mentality. I wanted to put everything into the work set. I also felt a need to preserve myself because tomorrow I will be on my feet teaching, all day, in 100+ degree heat (with 110+ heat index), with guns. Yeah, I need to pace myself to ensure I can get through tomorrow ok. 🙂
But that’s all good. My cue for today was “depth”. I wanted to ensure every rep was parallel or just below. The work up actually was a little on the hard side. Still no belt. But I was determined to keep my back up, no “hinging” and “falling forward”, push with my legs, keep my head/neck/chin driven back into the bar, and hit depth.
I went down for 1 on the 280 did well. A slight bobble on the way up because I was excited I hit depth. 🙂 Lost focus a bit and lost tightness in my upper back. But still did well. Went for 2, and just didn’t have the upper back tightness… still happy. I was pleased tho overall with the form of everything. I opted to not go for a third because I was pretty sure if I did I would make it but would have to sacrifice form, would fall forward, and would be muscling it up. Not what I wanted, so screw it, rack it.
All in all, alright.
After I racked it, I actually felt like the pause squats would have been perfect to work me out, but again no… I have to save myself for tomorrow. Getting old sucks. 😉
I do think I will take a deload week, and I am thinking about going “carbless” the entire time. That should be interesting. 🙂
Of course, there are some that took the mantra of “reduce, reuse, recycle” quite to heart. For example, we’d get part of our groceries in paper bags because paper bags had reuse around our household, and of course being paper they didn’t create the landfill problem. We did get some plastic bags because we would reuse them as garbage can liners (instead of buying plastic garbage can liners), and we’d dispose of messy things in them (e.g. dirty diapers (back when we had kids in diapers), scooping out the litterbox, etc.). And that which we didn’t or couldn’t use (e.g. bag had a hole on it), we would recycle.
Yes, there’s always been recycling of plastic bags. At least, as far as I’ve seen. Outside the front doors of every grocery store was a bin you could put your plastic bags into. They didn’t just accept the grocery store’s bags, but any sort of plastic film.
Did you ever realize how much plastic film you obtain?
There’s dry cleaning bags, product packaging, the plastic bags you bring produce home in. If you stop and pay attention, you’ll find there’s far more plastic being used and wasted in the products you bring home — in your reusable grocery bags — than there was in the bags themselves.
Wife made a habit of collecting all the plastic films and wrappers, along with plastic bags we couldn’t reuse. Every so often she would haul her collection to the grocery store, fill up the recycle bin, and the circle was complete. 🙂
We’ve been filling up our local plastic stash for some time… always forgetting to take it to the store. We collected quite a pile in the garage. 🙂 We needed to make space in the garage, so I piled all the wrappers and bags into my truck to take to the local grocery store to deposit in the bin.
As I rolled up to the store, I saw no bins outside any of the doors! I saw a store employee sweeping in the parking lot (it was very early in the morning) and asked. He said the bins were gone, that the city came by a few weeks ago and took them.
Uh… huh.
I dialed 311 to ask the City folk what I was supposed to do.
I don’t fault the person on the phone, it’s not their fault, but all they could do was quote to me what they read in the city’s information website:
CAN I RECYCLE PLASTIC BAGS, FILMS AND WRAPPERS?
No. We process recyclables at two local recycling processing facilities that use automated systems to sort and bale the recyclables. Prohibited items, like plastic bags, jam the automated machinery. Take plastic shopping bags to your local grocery stores for recycling.
I applauded when the city went to single-stream recycling. Not only does making it easy to recycle increase participation, but they also moved to a processor that could accept just about everything (e.g. not just 1 and 2 type plastics, but any type). But I knew it was an automated system that sorted things, so the denial of plastic bags makes sense.
But note, even now they still say to take the bags to the local grocery store for recycling.
Seems we can’t do that any more. It may be possible at some store, but I don’t have the time to go all over the city looking for the stores that will do this. Sorry.
And I was told to just throw my plastic in the trash.
Gee, Austin. Glad you like taking steps to “feel good” about “doing something” about “these problems that our society faces”. Next time, maybe you should think things through first.
And never forget what the road to Hell is paved with.
So anyways, I felt good about things. Just a really solid Press workout. Nothing much to say.
I am liking getting back to a proper Wendler approach, of doing a pulling set for every pressing set. Again, I am starting VERY light and trying to use a movement in the opposite plane to see if this makes for happier shoulders. So far so good. The face pulls were almost too light today… I didn’t really feel anything until towards the end, and then I did feel my traps peeding out while assistance pressing. So, all good I guess. But no question to up the weight there.
I also played around with hang cleans. Not full power cleans yet, just holding the empty bar, letting the bar hang down to my mid-thigh, then trying the movement out. This is how Rip starts off in the SS book, so I just played with it a bit. Most routines I see that incorporate power cleans are either full-body style things or tend to put cleans on squat or deadlift days. I think I’m going to try doing it on Press days and see how it does for me.
So my sessions will be something like:
squat, pause squat, abs
deadlift, deficit deadlifts, abs
bench press, incline db press, superset all pressing with pull-ups, kroc-style rows maybe superset with dips
press, more pressing, superset all pressing with face pulls or some sort of row, maybe some extra back work like lat pulldowns, then power cleans
So it puts more back work in due to the supersetting (like you should), but then simplifies things down to “3 movements” (main, 2 assistance) more or less, which gets back to simpler Wendler 5/3/1 approaches. I only added in a lot of that other stuff to make up for the lack of volume in some respects, but I think with what I’ll be doing here it’ll be more than enough once I find my groove and the right weights.
Stuff From Hsoi 