Yesterday I was at McBride’s Gun Store to meet someone. I arrived early so I looked around and picked up a few things. Of course, I had to look in the gun cases. I wanted to look for a revolver in .44 Magnum.
I saw a S&W 629 with a 4″ barrel. I would prefer at least a 5″, 6″ maybe…. so I asked the guy at the counter about that and he said he might have a 6″ elsewhere. I then asked “do you have any models without the internal lock?” and boy that set him off. He went on about how that’s the way things are now, get used to it, it’s no big deal, I’ve read all the stuff on the Internet but *I* have never experienced it and with so many guns sold and in circulation blah blah blah… and started talking down to me.
All I wanted to hear was “yes” or “no” the have it in stock or not. I didn’t ask for his opinion. To my fault, I engaged the conversation a bit, but he wouldn’t hear anything of it… I was obviously a moron.
You know, Michael Bane is no dummy and he’s personally experienced revolver lock-up. Read that thread and see that others have experienced it too, like Massad Ayoob. The point is simple to me: you have added something that isn’t necessary for the gun to function (it’s only there because of the gun grabbers and lawyers). You have now made the machine unnecessarily more complex, which just means with more parts there’s more ways for the thing to fail. And sooner or later it will. Given the nature of this mechanism, any failure with it could be fatal. It’s the engineer in me, what can I say. If the gun is a safe queen, who cares. If I’m betting my life on it? It’s a different story.
It may be a million in one chance of it happening and happening when your life depends upon it, but that’s little comfort when you’re that one.
Stuff From Hsoi 
Can anyone point to a single case –anywhere — where a criminal was not able to complete a crime because of an internal lock?
Can anyone show a shred of evidence that the internal lock has prevented a single suicide?
I’m with you, the safety is not in the gun but the gun owner.
As far as the store worker, I’ve walked out of a store instead of buying from a ‘know it all salesman’.
I didn’t ask his opinion of the Taurus PT-145, I wanted to see one. If they had one, I was going to buy it not maybe, but money in the pocket time to buy it.
I also told the store manager on the way out why she didn’t get a sale that day.
I don’t mind if someone wants to share their opinion, it’s the way the guy shared it. He was condescending and rude about it… very “know it all”. But I’ve tended to experience that with the sales folks at this store. It’s a good store in terms of what they offer, but there’s this “air” about the place… even the lady working the cash register was irritating. Always been that way every time I’ve been there (even with different people working).
Go figure.
Oh well.
And yeah, internal locks are silly. If I really needed a lock mechanism like that well, I’d use something external like a lock box or even one of those silly cable/padlock things that comes with every gun these days. Don’t unnecessiarily complicate the machine.
Guess this is where you go to GunBroker and find what you really want. There is usually a steady stream of pre-lock revolvers.
Or Texas Gun Trader. In fact, I saw a few just the other day that were possibilities.
Rude and condescending is not the way to treat customers.
Not gonna lie, I think McBride’s sucks. I’ve been in there half a dozen times since I moved to Austin and I’m not sure why I go back. IF you can get someone to wait on you, they are usually rude, know it all, pricks.
In fact, I was there just the other day and basically had the same experience, I was looking to see if they had a G30SF and or any revolver with a 3″ barrel. He said no to the Glock, but they had an XD Compact, he says, “It’s basically the same thing.” I ignored him, I don’t have anything against the XDs, they just aren’t guns I’m in love with our would spend my money on. Then the revolver question, “We don’t have anything with a 3″, because no one makes a 3″ revolver right now.” I just stared at him, you mean the 3″ J-Frames, the 3″ Ruger SP101s, and the 3″ GP100s they are all still made aren’t? I just smiled and said thanks and walked out.
A separate comment, on the internal lock. I hate the damn things, personally, but I really like some of the guns that have come with them (like the Night Guard guns). It is a very simple procedure to disable the internal lock, by removing the locking “flag” and spring. I’m not normally one to advocate the removal of a “safety device”, but for all S&W revolvers I carry with an internal lock, I do remove it. You can simply leave the keyed barrel looking thing in place and it will be fine. I want to carry a reliable gun and eliminating that concern over the internal lock working at the wrong time, is part of my confidence factor in the gun.
I know that there are those who say there could be a court liability, but two things I’ll say about that and I think we can all agree.
1) A good shoot is a good shoot. Most good shootings won’t go to trial. A good defense attorney will be able to nullify this simply by pointing out that there are thousands of guns without internal locks and besides, if you carried the gun for protection you were not going to lock the gun in your pocket.
2) Most crime scene techs and subsequent investigations are going to book your gun into evidence, shoot it to confirm ballistics and firing pin impressions, and turn it over for evidence. The likely hood that they will remove the side plate and inspect the gun to determine all the internal locking mechanisms are still intact is almost nil.
With all that said, I don’t blame you for wanting to find a no lock gun. I’d rather have a no lock gun too, I will not however, let a lock stop me from buying a gun I want.
-Rob
Well, I take some comfort in knowing the McBride’s experience isn’t just my own. 🙂
I hear you on the lock. In some ways, it’s the principle of the thing. Perhaps if more can be done to educate folk, maybe this won’t have to be how things are now and forever.
I hope so Hsoi. S&W does seem to be listening. They noted how quickly the runs of no-lock 642s and 442s sold out and more prodding and pressing by distributors and dealers, could cause them to start dropping the lock from other guns. The bottom line for S&W is simply money, so if they think they can get more money selling no lock guns, they will eventually start to do it more.
My suggestion? Write S&W CS executives, they are, ~extremely~ friendly and are listening. Buy some S&W Holdings stock and market yourself doubly as a consumer and a stock holder.
-Rob
I don’t think the manufacturers are going to drop them so quickly, because there’s a lot of legal and moreso political matter in the mix. It will take time, IMHO. Really, for it to change, it’s going to require educating the public.. the masses… the people. It won’t change without first changing that.
Still, you are right about the no-lock runs selling quickly. I’d be curious what the actual sales numbers are like relative to the lock models. I mean, part of the reason I bought the 442 that I have is specifically because it was a no-lock model. I called around town, TexGuns said “we don’t have any new no-lock 642’s, but we do have a new no-lock 442 in stock”… I got right in my car and bought it.
I guess let me reiterate. We can’t get rid of internal locks in guns forever because some states require them. S&W is not going to ignore sales in those states so they will continue to make IL guns. Some consumers even like and or want the internal locks. The flipside is, S&W IS listening to consumers who don’t want internal locks and if we push them, I bet we can get more limited edition runs without locks. If those runs sell fast enough and often enough, it possible to convince S&W to offer the lock as an option. It will make good business sense.
If we stay on them about it, we can probably get a few more no lock guns out of them. I’m not sure educating the consumers about the locks will help either. Most buyers are interested in simply buying a gun, many view the internal lock as a benefit.
-Rob
But I’m even thinking that sort of long-term… fixing the laws on the books. But that’s going to take time and a lot of education of the citizenry. Shorter-term, your strategy is certainly more feasible, just working S&W on the business front. I voted with my dollars for sure.
The more I go to McBride’s, the more I miss Rob Key and Just Guns on South Congress…
I’m going to have to start trolling for “good McBrides experiences”….
I’ve had similar experiences with McBride’s in the past, made worse because they made me feel like I was a punk college kid up to no good.
I’ll just go to GT and be happy. 🙂
The guys at GT are pretty good and it’s a great store overall. It’s of course a specialized store (you won’t find pretty over-under hunting shotguns), but for what it does they do it quite well, and the folks are nice and helpful too.
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