So a professor at University of Alabama, Huntsville shoots and kills 3 other professors and wounds 3 others.
But I thought college campuses were gun free zones?
Fat lot of good those signs and policies did.
Furthermore, there were no police nor external security forces there to protect anyone.
Granted, this woman was a case of crazy. But details apparently are that she was in a meeting discussing if she was to get tenure or not, she was denied, pulled out a gun and started shooting. So this was all planned — premeditated. She made up her mind that if she was to be denied tenure, she was going to make people pay with their lives.
You know that saying about shooting fish in a barrel?
She knew they couldn’t fight back. She knew she would have all the advantage.
How might things have been different if the other professors were also armed? Would she have taken a more diplomatic approach to resolving her problem? Could have not have 3 dead and 3 wounded? Of course, it’s all speculation. But the sad reality is things like this happen in gun free zones. From Howard Nemerov:
Ron Borsch is a part-time, commissioned consultant trainer for the Bedford (Ohio) Police Department, with 30 full-time years of service and 17 years with SWAT. He still works part-time, managing the SEALE Police Academy in Bedford, where he specializes in tactically training first-responders, teaching them how to deal with what he calls “active killers.”
Borsch notes that nearly all mass murders occur in places where law-abiding citizens are banned from possessing firearms, either by property owners or government regulation.
The data shows that when law-abiding citizens are allowed the means to protect themselves, violent crime decreases. Everyone likes that end: decrease in violent crime. Trouble is, there are those that don’t like the means to that end. The reality is, it’s the only means that is achieving that end.
Stuff From Hsoi 
Bob –
As Hsoi already acknowledged in answer to my statement previous: you can’t commit gun violence without guns. The lady was illegally enabled to shoot the innocent; no forfeiture/handicap enforced upon her first. About that total: how many less than ZERO did you have in mind?
“..without depriving..” C’mon Bob, I didn’t say ‘deprive’; I said ‘HANDICAP’! In essence, compensate society for having the ability to do harm with a gun. Is that asking too much?..even though you can shoot all the criminals thereafter? Criminals can still get their hands on shootable weaponry to murder the innocent in cold blood, but their privacy is KAPUT for life and/or their physical abilities are made extremely difficult for life. Forfeit the ease for the guns, or forfeit the guns for the ease. No exceptions! So which forfeiture do you prefer?
About the scenes in Michigan, Oklahoma and New York: if the builders saw what was coming and had to return pay/profit, etc. for what now no longer stands, would they have bothered to build those places? I certainly hope NOT!!
My cameras are a 1971 Bessler Topcon Unirex and a 1974 Nikon AI manual set-&-shoot. Both are fine single-reflex units working perfectly to this day, and I have lenses from fisheye to 1000 telephoto with tripods for all. For bowling I have proper lane shoes and my best weapon, a trusty 16lb. Amflite in black/gold flame design. I don’t hit the links these days, but since taking the Kung Fu course to Black Belt Level 1, I can power a driver with more accuracy and hit a golfball to first touchdown at 300 yards consistently with less stress on my wrists than before the KF course. Smacking the ‘Sweet Spot’ at least 90% of the time. Swimming is at certain lakes and small beaches around this area (northeast RI) in a 40mile circle. When I go to these events – or to ANY business activity or shopping trip -, I go strictly to participate in the task at hand. So I bring whatever I need; nothing else. Task finished, return home, enjoy the evening with my records or get on the computer.
The two quotes – that you DID repeat as an acknowledgement – are related, and both come from people who seemingly have nothing better to talk about. The gun can be used to shoot the innocent, and I refuse to give whores an audience. Both subjects have absolutely nothing to do with my interests. And publicity can be bent to cause legal trouble to the innocent AND to the self-defender. The damning evidence is in the fingerprints; nobody will find MINE on any gun. I did locksmithing from 1975 to 1993; my fingerprints are on file at the local Police Department, and I renew them every four years.
Do you know what’s wrong with today’s youth? Thanks to the national hyper-media, kids today think that shootings/bloodspills are- “COOOOL!!”. I tell ya’, something has really gone wrong when the younger generation is so de-sensitized to the harm that is done with guns. You can teach ’em, train ’em, and ultimately shame ’em…but if they possess a loaded gun and they get out of sight – WATCH OUT!
OK, I will attend other blogs before I log off for the night. Your turn now. Cheers from Ralph!
True. But you can commit violence with your bare hands, a bowling ball, swinging a camera on the end of its strap, a golf club. What’s the difference? Violence is violence. Again, are you interested in removing objects from the world or removing particular behaviors?
So you never prepare for the unexpected? You’re quite fortunate to have made it this far in life and never had a plan go wrong, never found yourself needing something but not having it on hand. But that’s just the Boy Scout in me. Last I checked, Boy Scouts of America was still turning out many a fine young man. Maybe if more kids today got involved in Scouting that might help the situation.
Yes, video games and action-packed movies have made an impact on kids. In some ways good, in other ways bad. But this is no different from anything in life. Kids need to be exposed to reality to help them understand the world. Anyone exposed to only fantasy has a warped sense of the world… no different from any generation. Solution? Get involved with the youth and help them learn about the real world. I home school my children. I’ve been a Cub Scout and Boy Scout leader. I’m a volunteer in 4-H. What do you do to help improve the situation with today’s youth?
And yes, part of what I do is teach children about guns and the realities of them. I’m an Eddie Eagle volunteer. I work to teach responsibility and reality about what guns can do, including that they can be a lot of fun and useful. I’ve got a buddy of mine that lives in a rural area of East Texas. The local paper has a section where kids can show off photos of their deer hunts. Yes… some of those kids get loaded guns, get out of sight and watch out… if you’re a deer. 🙂 You may not like that, but hey… better the parents know their kids are off in the woods hunting (and bringing home food for the family) than the parent having no idea where their kids are.
Hello, Hsoi.
Hmmm…you teach the kids about gun responsibility? I’d say that you’re making a whopping big mistake. Better to let the Police and the Military teach them about responsibility. The flying bullet has only one useful purpose, and that purpose isn’t FUN!
So where is the Public – and POLICE DEPT. – Knowledge of these kids using guns? They can shoot deer AND innocent hikers, so why aren’t the gun-shooting kids – AND their parents plus all living members of the family tree – subject to compulsory forfeiture of all privacy first?
Earlier you submitted that I may have (nearly) 100% trust in the Police. Actually, no I don’t. The forfeiture of all privacy as described must apply to the Police officers as well. Same with the Department which is the only allowed owner of the necessary guns and ammunition.
If you can shoot a criminal who aims/shoots at you, then you have sunk to the criminal’s level, in essence, to the lower force. I took those Kung Fu lessons so I could phyically defend myself WITHOUT using a gun, thus being smarter than the (lazy) criminal. Didn’t you do the same? – for EXACTLY the SAME reason?
I was never in the Boy Scouts, but in my younger years the Boy Scouts didn’t get involved with guns. GOOD!!! The last things we need around this politically wrecked country is Boy Scouts armed with guns!
In my second letter I gave reasons for my success. No marriage, no divorce. No credit cards, no debt. No guns, no fear. To these I now add…AND NO TEMPTATION, either! Does this mean that I never prepare for the unexpected? Certainly NOT! I AM prepared to knock down pins at the bowling alley; that’s why I bring my BOWLING BALL. I AM prepared to drive golfballs a-waayy down on the far side of the driving range – with my GOLF CLUBS. And when there’s something of interest that I want to look at long past the moment, I AM prepared to shoot it – with my CAMERA. These items are my weapons to use for the tasks at hand. Yes, Hsoi, I AM prepared because ‘No Temptation’ also means no distractions. The tasks are all that matters. And for the weekly food buying I go to the supermarket to SHOP, not to shoot. Sorry, Hsoi..but your version of Unexpected means that no purpose can ever be pure fun without some other ‘business’ purpose getting in the way. There are many others like you, Hsoi; I’ve met them at other blogs about gun control pro or con, and while they all mean well, they always repeat the same questions while avoiding any acknowledgement of specific other details. You and Bob did the same with a few statements in MY letters, and that leads me to suspect your motives as being rather foul. Life may be dangerous, but THAT dangerous? Look at your past life so far; if you didn’t need a gun on those days – and nothing else changed, either – then you could have left the gun OUT of the equation and still had a successful day. Every DAY!
That still leaves the future. To repeat: I’ve outlived many of my school associates, some classmates and others over and under my own class. Their deaths were by disease or accidents; none by gunfire. The first was a girl who lost an arm in a car collision; she was saved for a month, but infection set in and she died from it. 1958, at the age of eight years.
You’re right, I’ve been lucky so far. But I haven’t lived a good life as you implied; I’ve had the misfortune to work for slave-driving bosses when I couldn’t afford to look elsewhere for work; the economy is taxed so much that I had to give up some wonderful subscriptions just to conserve cash from year to year; I’m now among America’s unemployed thanks to government screwing the job market in favor of illegal aliens. So life isn’t as enjoyable as it was many years ago. I play the Powerball lottery in hopes of winning a jackpot; can’t afford to move away until I win one.
Amidst all of this, I absolutely refuse to think like the borderline loser who needs just one more thing to go wrong. You want to see me adopt a pro-Gun attitude. For God’s sake, GIVE IT UP!
Guns are the weapons of Killjoys. Self defense cannot hide that truth.
Fare thee well, and be wary of those criminals. Some of them may have been…Boy Scouts!
From the unrepentenly gun-free Ralph Baker in northeast Rhode Island, http://draaiorgelfan.wordpress.com, “Wanted – The Dean Martin Show!”.
Gosh… I don’t know where to begin.
From all the things you’ve posted, it really seems you’ve got a unique perspective on the world — a lot of it misinformed. It’s one thing to have opinions, but it’s another to deny facts and the reality of the world. For instance, the Boy Scouts have had shotgun and rifle shooting merit badges since 1966, and before that the Marksmanship merit badge which dates back to 1911, and the Marksman merit badge before that to 1910. Firearms have been a part of BSA for wow… all 100 years of its existence.
Other things to, like for all the assertions you make about people’s supposed behavior (e.g. give ’em a gun, they’re going to shoot innocent people), there’s no evidence to back it up. You make a lot of assertions based upon how you view the world to be and figure everything would be great and better if people just did what you did. Fair enough. Still, you make assertions without backing them up with facts and evidence… just an elitist notion of how you’re better than the rest of us.
Am I trying to convince you to adopt a pro-gun attitude? No. I’ve actually been asking you a lot of questions and you haven’t answered a one. What are you interested in? removing objects from the world or improving behaviors? Can you provide any facts and data to back up your claims? What should people that don’t have your advantage of Perpetual Motion and Personal Muscle Power to do to protect themselves, like my 80 year old grandmother?
You see, I used to not be a gun person. I came around to it over many many years of life, experiences, and serious thought and research into the matter. I’ve changed my mind once, I can certainly do it again. I’ve done the same on many things in my life. I know life can be fluid. I truly keep my mind open to life’s possibilities and offerings and am willing to be convinced so long as someone can provide a compelling argument. That’s all I was hoping to draw out of you was a compelling argument. However you offered no such thing…. just continued assertions that your way is the better way and the rest of us are knuckle-dragging low-lifes because we deal with firearms. I never expected you to change your mind, because it’s evident you’re unwilling to stoop to our level… to adopt guns would mean coming off your high horse and it’s evident you refuse to do that.
Oh well. The discussion was fun while it lasted. 🙂
Ralph,
Like Hsoi, I’m not sure where to begin. I think I’ll only address one point in your comment here. I’ll probably come back and address others at my blog.
If you can shoot a criminal who aims/shoots at you, then you have sunk to the criminal’s level, in essence, to the lower force. I took those Kung Fu lessons so I could phyically defend myself WITHOUT using a gun, thus being smarter than the (lazy) criminal. Didn’t you do the same?
What an elitist, egotistical piece of GARBAGE this is.
How is it smarter to get close to a criminal intent on doing you harm? Doesn’t sound all that smart to me.
It actually sounds like intellectual masturbation actually trying to justify your personal choices as some how morally superior to the choices of others.
Let’s be clear, violence is violence whether you do it with a firearm, your fists, your feet or a stick. It is still violence. What makes the difference is why a person resorts to violence — if we both use violence to protect ourselves or others you are no different then I am. NOT a bit.
Didn’t you do the same? – for EXACTLY the SAME reason?
And if you can’t tell the difference a criminal using a firearm to rape, murder or rob and a person using a firearm to defend against those actions — you mental stability and intelligence is questionable.
For my last appearance here, Bob…
Yes I DID answer your question(s). In fact, I answered all questions asked pre- and post- plus all questions yet to come! However, there is perhaps one last detail that fully justifies my refusal to obsess over guns.
If I had to trade places with any ONE of the 60+ students described already, that one would be alive today…but I’d be DEAD! Too dead to enjoy going to airports in the 1950s to watch DC3s, DC6s, Convairs and Constellations. Too dead to knock down pins at the bowling lanes – duckpins and candlepins at first, tenpins later. Too dead to walk the length of a big roller coaster, Crescent Park in 1962 after outliving the 3rd. Too dead to meet Walt Disney at the New York World’s Fair in 1965 after outliving the 4th and 5th. Too dead to do a lot of good things including a grand reunion – by email – of Dean Martin’s Golddiggers, many of whom had lost touch with each other since the show ended. I started the effort 3+1/2 years ago, found a few of the ladies to trade emails with, and now in 2010 the group is entertaining America once again. I watched them on The Dean Martin Show, 72 girls in five years worth of the show, twelve at a time on the stage at NBC. They’re all together once again, and I am supremely satisfied to have been an able scout for the ladies.
OK, your last paragraph has proven to me that you are unfit to judge proud-to-be-gunless-and-still-surviving people like me. You live by the gun; so do criminals, and the intent is defined by the possessors/shooters. Regardless of the intent, the flying bullet – at 850 feet per second – has only one mission, and it is always – ALWAYS! – offensive.
Y’know, Bob…you are like my father. Like you, he was critical of my peaceful nature. Everything had to be HIS way. He once brought a shotgun home to shoot animals eating the veggies in the garden; I reported this to the local police, they came up and took the gun away. GOOD! I patched the holes in the fence later. No gunfire but a lot better fence.
My father died of leukemia in 1998. We’ll all have our last day of life at some point; that’s the price we must bear for surviving conception. If you, Bob, should be felled by a heart attack or SOMEthing not related to guns, you’ll find out in a real hurry that your questionable pro-Gun mentality is – and always WAS! – utterly worthless.
I gave my concience to The Lord Jehovah in my youth, so I’m much better prepared for Judgement Day than you are. God’s Word is the Law, and His Judgement is final. In respect of God, you’ll not find my finger/handprints on any gun.
Amen!…and goodbye.
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