Apparently Timothy Gramins:
At long last the would-be cop killer crumpled to the pavement.
The whole shootout had lasted 56 seconds, Gramins said…. Gramins had discharged 33 rounds. Four remained in his magazine.
It doesn’t matter that Timothy Gramins is a police officer and was on duty. What matter is he was a man being brutally attacked, and he chose to fight, he chose to live.
And he needed a lot more than 10 rounds to preserve his life.
Who would need more than 10 rounds, indeed.
Some might say that he’s police, and they always get exemptions from the law. It’s precisely because they know there’s no good reason to restrict capacity, because one may well need it, as Sgt. Gramins did. Is there some reason we plebeians should be treated differently? Of Tom Givens‘ 60 students still alive today because they were carrying their gun, the range of shots fired ranged up to 11 shots. That’s more than 10; that’s more than 7. Was the life of this one person not worth it? because I thought “if it saves just one life, then it’s worth it”.
Who would need more than 10 rounds, indeed.
(Aside: another lesson to learn? you’re not dead until you’re dead. Keep fighting. Both Sgt. Gramins and his attacker were brutally wounded, but both kept fighting, both kept working to survive and live. You’ll be dead when you’re dead; meantime, keep fighting.)
Austin Police Chief Acevedo admits his department cannot keep you safe. That the FBI can’t keep you safe. That the government cannot keep you safe.
“It really illustrates the importance of vigilance,” Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo said. “The police department can’t do it alone. The FBI can’t do it alone, government can’t do it alone. Ultimately, we’re all responsible for safety.”
Ultimately WE are responsible for safety.
You are responsible for (your) safety.
And yet, he testifies against campus carry and recently went to Washington DC to testify in favor of gun control proposals that won’t do much to impact crime but will affect your ability to do as he says and be responsible for your own safety.
So Mr. Acevedo, which way is it? I mean, great that you say you support CHL but again, your actions don’t exactly jive.
Nevertheless, it’s nice to see the Austin Chief of Police admit and acknowledge that the only person that can be responsible for your safety is yourself, and that “others” cannot truly keep you safe.
As they say, admitting it is the first step.
Sheriff Shayne Heap of Elbert County Colorado. Notable is that he chastised all politicians, regardless of political affiliation — it’s more about their intent.
Yeah… a lot of recent posts based upon the words of law enforcement. But I figure if you’re going to talk about crime and violence, maybe those that deal with it every day might be worth listening to. I mean, going to Joe Biden for leadership on violence issues is like going to Fred Phelps for leadership on gay rights issues.
Seems to be generally accepted that listening to the police is A Good Thing.
I mean, these are the people actually out there, dealing with crime and criminals on a daily basis. They might know a thing or two. Certainly when your job causes you to get shot at on a semi-regular basis, you might know something more than someone that lives in an Ivory Tower surrounded by armed guards and never has to look violence in the eye every day.
Bottom Line Conclusions
Quite clearly, the majority of officers polled oppose the theories brought forth by gun-control advocates who claim that proposed restrictions on weapon capabilities and production would reduce crime.
In fact, many officers responding to this survey seem to feel that those controls will negatively affect their ability to fight violent criminals.
Contrary to what the mainstream media and certain politicians would have us believe, police overwhelmingly favor an armed citizenry, would like to see more guns in the hands of responsible people, and are skeptical of any greater restrictions placed on gun purchase, ownership, or accessibility.
The officers patrolling America’s streets have a deeply-vested interest — and perhaps the most relevant interest — in making sure that decisions related to controlling, monitoring, restricting, as well as supporting and/or prohibiting an armed populace are wise and effective. With this survey, their voice has been heard.
… that’s gotta tell you something.
The ACLU has never been much of a friend to gun rights, so when they come out with some hefty reservations about the .gov’s gun control bill? that ought to tell you something about how crappy the legislation is.
Again, I know of no gun owner that doesn’t want to solve the real problems. But so far there haven’t been any proposals that actually solve the real problems. We just keep getting crap laws like those being passed in New York, Connecticut, Maryland, Colorado, and now being proposed on the federal level. Again, if the ACLU thinks the wording of the bill is dangerous, perhaps y’all should listen.
I’ve been a card-carrying member of the ACLU in my past, and I still generally support them because we need groups like them. I wish they weren’t so pick-and-choose about what Constitutional rights they opt to support, but I’m still glad they’re here.
In remarks at the Denver Police Academy in Denver, Colo., [President Barack Obama] said that, after campaigning in rural Iowa, Michelle Obama told him, “You know, if I was living out on a farm in Iowa, I’d probably want a gun, too. When somebody just drives up into your driveway and you’re not home, you don’t know who these people are, you don’t know how long it’s going to take for the sheriffs to respond, I can see what you’d want some guns for protection.”
I don’t get it.
Are the Obama’s being well… not racist but classist? stereotyping “Iowa Rednecks” or Iowa as a scary place to live? elitist attitude? or is this simple ignorance? Are they saying guns are fine in rural areas, but not in cities? for rednecks but not cityfolk? or… what? I’m not sure what to make of the implications of their comments. But let’s just set that side and look at the plain words.
When someone drives up to your home…
You don’t know who these people are…
You don’t know how long it’s going to take for someone else to come and save you (because apparently your safety is someone else’s responsibility)…
well, in that case, they can see why people might want guns.
Well… all the people around you right now. Maybe not those immediately around you there at home or even the office (but perhaps even at the office, because I’m sure you don’t know everyone in your company or your building), but look at all those around you in the greater area. Heck, next time you go out to lunch or dinner, next time you’re out shopping, next time you’re at the gas station… do you know all those people? Do you know who they are?
Was there ever a time when some strange person drove into your driveway? Or came and knocked on your door?
Do you know how long it takes for your local law enforcement to arrive? You probably don’t. I’m not sure where this guy got his stats from, but you can see the average for these large cities runs about 10 minutes. That’s about par with my experience in Austin. Even if you don’t know the precise time, consider simple realities of time and space. There isn’t a cop standing right next to you right now, so that means if you want one, one has to travel to you. First, you have to have a way to communicate that you need one: so you or someone needs to dial 911, wait on hold, talk to an operator, explain what you need, they patch things through, depending how your 911 center is organized they might dispatch from there or the operator might have to relay your information to a dispatcher who then can send out the police… how many minutes did all this take before a cop was even starting to travel your way? Now they have to fight through traffic to get to you. Yeah sure they can turn on their lights, but I’m sure you’ve seen it — police car, fire truck, ambulance… lights and siren flashing, and it still takes them a while to get through an intersection because cars can’t or won’t get out of the way. All the while… the clock is ticking…. and your attacker continues their attack.
So… Mr. & Mrs. Obama….
What makes it about Iowa that can have guns (in your mind), but someone living in not-Iowa couldn’t? Don’t these things happen in The Big City too? Aren’t there strange people, willing to commit horrible acts, in cities too? Aren’t police in cities subject to the same rules of time and space and that it takes time to respond? I mean, not all of us are surrounded by Secret Service agents.
So please, explain to me the thinking behind your statement.
Texas CHL process is what responsible gun ownership is about. Proud of our process & the overall excellence of our CHL holders.
Really? Color me a little surprised.
Well, now Austin’s police chief is on record, and I do thank him for his words. But, it seems contrary to prior words.
“When you start talking about 21 year-olds and college students, responsibility is the last thing on their minds,” Acevedo said. “With a lot of pressure and high campus suicide rates, the last thing we want to include in that environment, like a bar, is guns.”
So let me get this straight. A 21-year-old Texas resident gets a Texas CHL. To have that CHL apparently demonstrates the person is a responsible gun owner — a person of excellence, according to Chief Acevedo.
But if that 21-year-old is a college student, if they cross over into the magical fairyland bubble of the college campus… suddenly somehow responsibility degrades to becoming the last thing on their mind.
Apparently I’m failing to understand Mr. Acevedo’s logic.
…we can do better than this. We can do better to make sure that fewer parents have to endure the pain of losing a child to an act of violence.
- President Barack Obama
I don’t agree with the reasoning that disarming the citizenry is the way to achieve said safety.
And yes folks, that’s ultimately what he (and his ilk) are after. They tried to slice off a huge chunk, but since that won’t succeed instead they will slowly chip away at the stone. If you start to let the chips fall, eventually there won’t be a rock left and you’ll wonder what happened.
We teach and strongly advocate for things like women’s self-defense clinics where we teach women to fight back against rapists. Rape is an atrocious act of violence. I don’t care who you are or what you think, but the Truth is the vast majority of women can be overpowered by any man — even a teenage male. Are you advocating for my daughter to be a victim? It was not her choice to be weaker, to be smaller, and thus potential prey. If she is at a disadvantage through no fault and choice of her own, what do you suggest she do to overcome potential disparity? What can you honestly suggest she do that could prevent a 250# 25-year old male from raping, beating, and leaving her for dead? Yell “NO!”, blow a whistle, and palm-strike him to the nose? or as some legislators recently suggested, she just pee/poop her pants or tell the attacker she has a disease? I tell you what… come try that on me and see how far you get (pure training environment, just to demonstrate the reality of how much that technique fails).
Like all tools, we use tools to overcome disparity. Most of us aren’t strong enough to pound a nail or turn a screw without a tool. And a gun? That’s something that enables the weak to overcome the disparity against a strong attack. Palm strike or pepper spray or taser? Think about how close you have to be to the attacker to make those things work — too close. A gun? it’s designed to overcome distance. It’s designed to overcome disparity.
I don’t want to lose my children to an act of violence. I don’t want you to lose your children to an act of violence. I used to believe that there was never a reason to hit, that violence was never the answer. I’m glad I overcame those notions, because I left my bubble and learned that yes sometimes there are reasons to hit, and yes sometimes violence is the (only) answer. The idealist in me wishes it wasn’t so, but the realist in me knows it to be true and has finally accepted it. I don’t know anyone that would sit idly by while their children were beaten, raped, kidnapped, etc.. What would they do? They would fight. They would be willing to sacrifice their own lives for the life of their child. If you’re going to fight, if you’re going to be fighting for the life of you and your child, don’t you want ever advantage possible that would enable you to prevail?
We all want the same thing, but we vastly disagree with the road to achieve it.
They know it’s polarizing, they know it won’t get through, so the “bigwigs” are basically nixing it.
So folks… please stop hoarding ammo. Those of us that actually want, need, and use ammo would like to get some. Classes are hard to teach without it.
But this isn’t the end of the road.
First, we don’t know what Reid will actually try to present on the floor. But he believes they will be proposals that will gain more support. So I guess the question remains: who is still willing to sell us out? None of these proposals will make any difference towards achieving their stated ends.
One proposal that keeps coming up that they think could gain traction is a ban or restriction on “high-capacity magazine clips” (quote from the above article… *sigh*.
“Families in Newtown and across the country deserve a robust debate on efforts to reduce gun violence,” Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said in a statement. “While the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013 is an incredibly important part of this debate, I continue to believe that a more targeted ban on high capacity magazines is an equally effective way to reduce casualties in episodes of mass violence. I believe we need to have a separate floor vote on a high capacity magazine restriction, and I look forward to working with other senators in the coming weeks to develop a reasonable restriction on large volume magazines that can gain bipartisan support.”
Newtown… “won’t someone think of the children, because we’ll make you look like a heartless beast that wants children to be slaughtered if you oppose us”.
But the reality is, it won’t affect casualties. So many of the mass shootings have been slow and methodical. They will casually reload, and keep shooting. If they won’t reload, then they’ll just have more guns and reload by picking up another gun. And if not another gun, there’s far many more ways to inflict mass death and damage that doesn’t involve guns at all. So tell me, apart from making you feel good because you’ve “done something”, what are you actually doing towards solving root problems and not just taking a lozenge for the symptoms?
Here’s some irony out of the article.
“Our nation’s law enforcement officials know better than anyone what it takes to protect our communities from gun violence, and they know that background checks help save lives,” New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, co-chair of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, said in a statement. ”They have dedicated their lives to protecting the public, and as Congress debates our nation’s gun laws, their voices deserve to be heard.”
Yes, the LEO’s know. And that’s part of why LEO’s want “high-capacity magazine clips”. It’s part of why LEO’s are constantly exempted from these sorts of bans and restrictions. If putting 10-round or 7-round limits on gun capacity directly correlates to a reduction in gun violence, then it should apply to LEO’s as well. Else, what’s your real motivation behind such a ban and restriction?
Background checks save lives. Maybe, maybe not. I think to some extent the system has worked, because I’ve spoken with a lot of guys behind the counter and heard some crazy stories about people who have tried to buy, filled out the 4473, got called in for a background check, and then had such a rap sheet that they dispatched police to come pick the guy up at the counter. So yeah, it can work.
But do you really think that background checks are going to keep guns out of the hands of people bent on death and destruction?
I mean, consider Sudafed. Look at what Grandma has to do to get medicine for her cold. But exactly how much meth production has been stopped by this “background check”? So do you think Joe Gangbanger selling a stolen gun out of the trunk of his car is going to do an NICS check? Tell me how this will do anything useful.
And folks… one thing to remember about a lot of Police Chief’s. They are politicians. They are many times the puppet of the city council and mayor. They aren’t elected, so they tend to serve who put them there. This is why you often find the Sheriff more favorable, since they were elected by the people. It’s been quite interesting to watch the past some months and see how police chief’s come out in favor of bans and restrictions, and sheriffs are not and in fact many have flat out stated they will defy orders to do things like confiscation.
It’s the same old story. And it won’t go away any time soon.
It’s evident things are fading, and that’s good because it shows what people really want in this world: real solutions to our problems, not political agendas.
But it’s not gone. It’s not done. There’s still stuff on the Federal level, and there are still states trampling on freedoms with their emotional appeals and knee-jerk reactions. So, we cannot let up. We must still fight the fight.
But please, stop hoarding. That way we can hold more classes, and bring more people into the fold. Teach them right, teach them well, teach them safely, and allow them to go to the range to practice. This is the sort of advocacy that will benefit us most in the long run. As Jim Scoutten says, “Shoot often, shoot safely, and share your sport!”
I have a serious question.
Should ignorant people be allowed to make laws and policy?
I’m sure to some it seems like a stupid question to ask. But I have to ask it, because I see so many people permitting the ignorant to make laws and policy, and I don’t understand why.
I said, “Well, you know, my shotgun will do better for you than your AR-15, because you want to keep someone away from your house, just fire the shotgun through the door.”
There’s more to the transcript, but I want to focus on the last part of Mr. Biden’s statement.
I’d like to hope one doesn’t need to understand the fundamental rules of firearm safety to understand how dangerous, reckless, careless, and potentially tragic Mr. Biden’s suggestion could be. If you have no idea what’s on the other side of that door, you have no business shooting through it.
Right now we have a terrible shooting story in the news, of Olympic athlete Oscar Pistorius being accused of killing his girlfriend. Apparently he shot through a closed door without knowing who was behind it.
There’s tons of other things wrong with Mr. Biden’s comments, both the current ones and ones he’s made in the recent past. I’m at a point where I just don’t know if Biden is that ignorant of firearms and personal safety, or if he’s that smart and is trolling.
Either way, is this a person that should be in charge of making policy? That should be in charge of writing laws? Even if he is that smart and is trolling, is that how a politician should behave?
There are those who claim men cannot speak about abortion because, as men, they cannot understand women’s health issues. There are those who would find it ludicrous for climate-change deniers to set our environmental policy. Or that fundamentalist Christians should have any say over public school science curriculum. If such demonstrable and obvious ignorance on a topic is so unacceptable, why is it acceptable here?
If we seek true experts, people truly knowledgable in the field, when it comes to solving problems… why aren’t we doing that here? I don’t think Mr. Obama nor Mr. Biden has called Massad Ayoob or Tom Givens. Why would that be? Why wouldn’t actual public safety experts be consulted here?
Just because the end may wind up meeting your agenda, I cannot see how you can condone the means for getting there. For if you set the precedent that it’s OK for the ignorant to mandate policy when the policy serves you, just remember… karma’s a bitch.